2015 RTP/PAX

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sentrase
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by sentrase »

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dewittpayne
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by dewittpayne »

jcox07 wrote:I was at nationals and didn't see a single r comp tire in the same class as street tires. DeWitt you are forgetting that at nationals you only run against cars in your class and not other classes. Yeah if you pax that the r comps did better, but at the pros where in the super challenge you run against other class cars in other classes the pax is adjusted and your dial in is set by the class winner. As in sts, the pax goes from .829 to .811 at pros and like my earlier post stated in 10 pro solos this year street tires won 5 and you can't ask for more than that if you are SCCA.
I agree that the Pro Solo RTP/PAX is much less, if at all, biased against the street tire classes. In fact, I recommended that we use it instead of the Ruth index early in 2014 for that very reason. There is very little difference between the indices for R-comp classes between the Ruth index and the Pro Solo index, but Street Touring and Street classes are much lower in the Pro Solo index.

Class 2014 2015 2014 Pro
SS 0.843 0.835 0.822
AS 0.833 0.829 0.81
BS 0.831 0.826 0.808
CS 0.821 0.814 0.797
DS 0.815 0.812 0.803
ES 0.814 0.808 0.793
FS 0.818 0.810 0.795
GS 0.806 0.806 0.771
HS 0.797 0.796 0.766
STF 0.801 0.801 0.787
STS 0.829 0.828 0.811
STR 0.838 0.838 0.818
STX 0.827 0.831 0.806
STU 0.846 0.844 0.831

The Ruth 2015 index didn't even move half the difference between 2014 and 2014 Pro. Street Touring hardly changed at all.
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by thrdeye »

flier129 wrote:
My biggest surprise...... ESP didn't move.... dafuq?
Keep in mind that if several classes drop in pax, relatively, that is an increase for those that stayed the same.
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integra55
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by integra55 »

not if you couldn't care less about PAX :mrgreen:
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by John Brown »

any driver that d oes not "care about pax ", will, inadvertently never be at the pointy end of the stick ... because they set their sights at the wrong target.. and after reading all the pax crap on Facebook today, I have also noticed a trend with everyone that gage by pax ...and those that don't.....
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by steverife »

I care how I do, I just don't care about the change in numbers. :)

Anyway, after looking at things, it looks like SS-FS basically got softened, STX got hammered, and everything else basically stayed the same.
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by oldmuscle69 »

Well with that in mind with STS what is the real thought on the matter? Do we in the class be concerned or just drive next year? On some sort of tire that someone else not in class deems is unfit for us to run? Go buy a car today and see if it has the same weight as ours and is as fun to drive. Not thinken so !!!
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integra55
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by integra55 »

John Brown wrote:any driver that d oes not "care about pax ", will, inadvertently never be at the pointy end of the stick ... because they set their sights at the wrong target.. and after reading all the pax crap on Facebook today, I have also noticed a trend with everyone that gage by pax ...and those that don't.....
I figure, that with you running STS Pro, I've got all the comparing I need

and with zero plans to attend national events, (where PAX really doesn't matter) … again using you and Rife and other Pro STS drivers, I get all the push and comparing I need …
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dewittpayne
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by dewittpayne »

Walter,

PAX certainly matters for Pro Solo, which I believe are National events.

When I bought my Mustang, I had no idea that I would be autocrossing with it. For my first two years, I was the only regular competitor in FS (I wanted the jacket). Where I placed on PAX was the only measure of progress I had. Being an analytical chemist by training, numbers are important to me. The apparently arbitrary and opaque nature of the Ruth PAX/RTP index bothers me. I get the distinct impression that there is, in fact, no solid method behind it, just eyeballs on the data. Eyeballs that appear, on the evidence, to be biased against street tired cars. In science we would call that a SWAG, short for Scientific Wild A$$ Guess.
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MARKP
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by MARKP »

Please explain to me where PAX matters at Pro Solo, where they use Howard's numbers for some classes that don't have enough competitors for a stand-alone class.

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integra55
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by integra55 »

dewittpayne wrote:Walter,

PAX certainly matters for Pro Solo, which I believe are National events.

When I bought my Mustang, I had no idea that I would be autocrossing with it. For my first two years, I was the only regular competitor in FS (I wanted the jacket). Where I placed on PAX was the only measure of progress I had. Being an analytical chemist by training, numbers are important to me. The apparently arbitrary and opaque nature of the Ruth PAX/RTP index bothers me. I get the distinct impression that there is, in fact, no solid method behind it, just eyeballs on the data. Eyeballs that appear, on the evidence, to be biased against street tired cars. In science we would call that a SWAG, short for Scientific Wild A$$ Guess.
what Mark said ….

my point was that in Solo, PAX doesn't matter …unless you run in an indexed class (Pro, Ladies, …. etc …)

I can compare my raw times to cars similar to mine, or in my case to cars that are just like mine … I in no way try to compare my runs to someone like you … apples to rutabagas …

now if we're ever forced into a Street Touring class, like CCR tried to do … well, there's alway more track events I can do :lol:

oh, and like I said, I don't plan on ever doing any national events … doesn't mean I won't, just that I don't have any plans to
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by dewittpayne »

Mark,

I thought understood how Pro Solo worked. After trying to work out an example, though, it's clear that I don't understand. At Blytheville this year, for example, I don't understand why Sam Strano made the Pro Challenge but Jed Peterson didn't, unless Jed did make it in but decided to not compete.
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by MARKP »

Couldn't tell you about that specific event but those that get into the challenge are, first, class winners or, second, those close enough to the class winner's time until you have enough to fill the challenge.

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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by rocket71 »

John Brown wrote:any driver that d oes not "care about pax ", will, inadvertently never be at the pointy end of the stick ... because they set their sights at the wrong target.. and after reading all the pax crap on Facebook today, I have also noticed a trend with everyone that gage by pax ...and those that don't.....
Well stated. I have always gauged my progression as a driver and car prep with PAX as a primary data point.
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Re: 2015 RTP/PAX

Post by dewittpayne »

MARKP wrote:Couldn't tell you about that specific event but those that get into the challenge are, first, class winners or, second, those close enough to the class winner's time until you have enough to fill the challenge.

Sent from the Galaxy.
A confusing point to me was using the word 'class' to mean two different things. There are the individual Solo classes like FS. At a Pro Solo there are also run 'classes', like SR and Bump, that are composed of multiple Solo classes and use Pro Solo PAX corrected times to determine finishing order and challenge qualification for places lower than first based on time difference to the winner. I went back to the Blytheville Pro thread and Jed did opt out of running the Pro Challenge because of the weather, which was miserable. The dial in times for the Pro Challenge are then determined by individual Solo class position, not by run class position. So even though Sam Strano finished fourth in Bump Class, he was the fastest SSP car and his dial in time was calculated from his raw time total. That wasn't clear to me before.

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