Today

[John Brown]

Ya'll LUCKY I didnt make this one... for a bunch uh different reasons...

[thrdeye]

But in all seriousness, my guess is that an AS Vette, STU Nissan, or STR ND isn't far off mid 60's going into the back sweeper and the showcase, and possibly the final slalom. Limiter in my car of course.

[jcox07]

So, use the match tour course or champ tour course at BMS and my top speed was 73mph for a snap of the fingers, but the courses flowed very well and sustained 55-65mph thru a lot of the course, that's why people like Kyle H. and others wrote letters to the seb and national office stating that those should be courses used to layout other national courses as how they should flow and speed sustained......At setup day for nationals, Howard said he had never gotten as much positive feed back on national courses from the competitors like he did from this years two courses at BMS. It felt like I was going faster than I actually was but that was because they flowed very well and you could sustain speed while driving them...

[thrdeye]

They were good, but you know that you were only .300 faster than the ES winner on day one, right? You can't assign some magic difference in times to a course. Doesn't work that way.

[jcox07]

Totally know that but they flowed well and sustained what felt like high speeds and the cs and es cars could go almost as fast because of that....

[thrdeye]

Totally know that but they flowed well and sustained what felt like high speeds and the cs and es cars could go almost as fast because of that....

....and those same ES and CS cars went almost as fast on Sunday.

Also, DJ (CS) would have finished in 2nd at Bristol in ESP.

[John Brown]

these debates are not making sense to me... JY is saying that faster flowing courses make cars closer overall... and the agrument is that (using the facts Harp is stating) is nothing but right.
A faster flowing course is conducive to small cars and large cars.. but, a tighter slower course only leans toward small cars.
As a driver of both.. I see both sides.

[dewittpayne]

I hit 57 in the run going into the showcase....but that's my limiter in 2nd. I wasn't on it long so I'd guess with more gear I'd probably been somewhere around 62-63ish.

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Assuming you were at full throttle in second, you wouldn't have accelerated as fast with more gear so you wouldn't be much, if any faster. As I remember, in drag racing, transmission gearing doesn't affect top speed much. You just get there faster using lower gears as long as you don't light up the tires.

[thrdeye]

these debates are not making sense to me...

You want to know why? Because Sunday's course did flow reasonably well and was pretty even for all vehicles and JY won't acknowledge that. The slaloms and offsets were open enough, and the turns were well in excess of a 60 ft radius. For sure, no one was downshifting into first gear.

I don't understand how anyone can watch Vrooman's video and think there was anything painful on the course. Seems most of the other big car guys agree. Top speed probably was lower than usual, but I'd argue our recent local courses have probably been a smidge too fast.

[steverife]

these debates are not making sense to me... JY is saying that faster flowing courses make cars closer overall... and the agrument is that (using the facts Harp is stating) is nothing but right.
A faster flowing course is conducive to small cars and large cars.. but, a tighter slower course only leans toward small cars.
As a driver of both.. I see both sides.

JY said that smaller lower powered cars running times close to him proved that the last course was bad and unfair. Chris is stating that his example of a good and fair course had similar results.

[steverife]

I hit 57 in the run going into the showcase....but that's my limiter in 2nd. I wasn't on it long so I'd guess with more gear I'd probably been somewhere around 62-63ish.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

Assuming you were at full throttle in second, you wouldn't have accelerated as fast with more gear so you wouldn't be much, if any faster. As I remember, in drag racing, transmission gearing doesn't affect top speed much. You just get there faster using lower gears as long as you don't light up the tires.

I think he just meant the ability to continue to accelerate without shifting gears. So if you wanted to be pedantic, you'd say more rpm's in 2nd gear.

[John Brown]

Now, I wasnt there... but, after watching Steves video... my first reaction was God, that looks painful. honest.

Chris... you should drive it. And see the difference.

[Challenger]

I hit 57 in the run going into the showcase....but that's my limiter in 2nd. I wasn't on it long so I'd guess with more gear I'd probably been somewhere around 62-63ish.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

Assuming you were at full throttle in second, you wouldn't have accelerated as fast with more gear so you wouldn't be much, if any faster. As I remember, in drag racing, transmission gearing doesn't affect top speed much. You just get there faster using lower gears as long as you don't light up the tires.

I think he just meant the ability to continue to accelerate without shifting gears. So if you wanted to be pedantic, you'd say more rpm's in 2nd gear.

Yep exactly what I meant.

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[thrdeye]

Now, I wasnt there... but, after watching Steves video... my first reaction was God, that looks painful. honest.

Chris... you should drive it. And see the difference.

Looks at John's signature.

I think y'all forget I've driven plenty of these big cars on our school courses. But, I'd be glad to drive anytime. It's been years since I've driven JY's car but even back then it wasn't painful even on a school course. Jim's GT350 is great and actually drives much smaller than it is.

[jcox07]

Look there are two ways a small car gets close to a big car on raw times, courses like the match and champ where they flow and can carry momentum, that's one and the other is where a big car can't use power and it is wider by far and has to slow down more than a narrow and shorter car does to get thru an element and the big car has no where like randy said to let it eat, that's 2 and that's this past events course. I never said anything about cory in his es car out pacing me on any course this year but sundays would have been a good phase 2 course. Something with a lot of pain to drive in a big car.