2019 pax

Discussions related to Solo
dewittpayne
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:19 pm
Location: Kingsport, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by dewittpayne »

Steve,
I mean, STU is way faster than AS.
Is it really? Not at Lincoln in 2017.

The 350Z has a narrower track and a shorter wheelbase than a Corvette. Both of those should make it faster. At the 2017 Solo Nationals, the Corvettes running in STU were similar in speed to Corvettes running in AS. AS, First Place Jason Frank, 2002 Corvette, 116.253. STU First Place Brian Heitkotter, 2007 Nissan 350Z, 114.409. There was a big gap to second place in a WRX, 115.767. The first Corvette was in Fourth Place, Lane Borg, 2004 Corvette, 116.952.
DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT CAM-C

"Tires are meant to die young." Heyward Wagner
dewittpayne
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:19 pm
Location: Kingsport, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by dewittpayne »

You can drop a 99 Mustang or whatever body on a Corvette if you think that is the ideal suspension/CoG and ballast weight, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I don't think you can and still be in CAM-C. You need four seats, not to mention being licensed and insured.
DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT CAM-C

"Tires are meant to die young." Heyward Wagner
User avatar
MARKP
Posts: 10333
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Farragut, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by MARKP »

dewittpayne wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:28 pm
You can drop a 99 Mustang or whatever body on a Corvette if you think that is the ideal suspension/CoG and ballast weight, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I don't think you can and still be in CAM-C. You need four seats, not to mention being licensed and insured.
Sure you can. John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight. You also have an allowance to remove the rear seat. You should ride over to No Limit Engineering sometime and see the 3rd Gen Camaro they are building. From what I hear, it is intended to fully exploit the rules (or lack of) for CAM. Think tube frame CP car with "interior" and street tires.
Mark Pilson
03 Z06 - Sword
09 Mustang - Club
01 Excursion - The safe you dropped from the 10th story
dewittpayne
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:19 pm
Location: Kingsport, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by dewittpayne »

Mark,
John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight.
Strictly speaking, it's a 1964 Chevelle. Or at least that's what it said in the only 2018 CCR event that he entered, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't fast. You have to match the wheelbase and track and outer body dimensions. It still remains to be seen if tires are, in fact, the limiting factor and a lot of money is being wasted on building one-offs rather than modifying an existing car.
DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT CAM-C

"Tires are meant to die young." Heyward Wagner
steverife
Posts: 9897
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by steverife »

dewittpayne wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:02 pm Mark,
John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight.
Strictly speaking, it's a 1964 Chevelle. Or at least that's what it said in the only 2018 CCR event that he entered, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't fast. You have to match the wheelbase and track and outer body dimensions. It still remains to be seen if tires are, in fact, the limiting factor and a lot of money is being wasted on building one-offs rather than modifying an existing car.
Do tires just really hate pony cars or something?
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
User avatar
MARKP
Posts: 10333
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Farragut, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by MARKP »

dewittpayne wrote:Mark,
John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight.
Strictly speaking, it's a 1964 Chevelle. Or at least that's what it said in the only 2018 CCR event that he entered, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't fast. You have to match the wheelbase and track and outer body dimensions. It still remains to be seen if tires are, in fact, the limiting factor and a lot of money is being wasted on building one-offs rather than modifying an existing car.
The car has been around for years. John lives in Japan so he has only driven it at that event. It was built and raced by Alan and Adam Schoonmaker. It is also very heavy. They built it to John's specs. It was not built specifically to be fast in CAM.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Mark Pilson
03 Z06 - Sword
09 Mustang - Club
01 Excursion - The safe you dropped from the 10th story
dewittpayne
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:19 pm
Location: Kingsport, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by dewittpayne »

Now that I know what to look for, the Chevelle/Corvette isn't terrible, but it's not a world beater either. The Schoonmakers are now running a 69 Camaro in addtion to or instead of the 64 Chevelle, but I don't know anything about it. They seem to be finishing at about the same relative positions in the class when it's a combined index class.

As far as tires, the 315 and 335 BFG's seem to have rather soft sidewalls for the weight of the pony cars and the 305 Bridgestones are a bit on the narrow side for that much weight and horsepower.
DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT CAM-C

"Tires are meant to die young." Heyward Wagner
michael.plaster
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:55 am
Location: Johnson City, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by michael.plaster »

I'm looking forward to some of these CAM builds. Too bad they specifically changed the rules to gate-keep a certain Jeep from competing.
Michael Plaster
69 Corvette
John Brown
Posts: 8798
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:05 am

Re: 2019 pax

Post by John Brown »

dewittpayne wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:02 pm Mark,
John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight.
Strictly speaking, it's a 1964 Chevelle. Or at least that's what it said in the only 2018 CCR event that he entered, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't fast. You have to match the wheelbase and track and outer body dimensions. It still remains to be seen if tires are, in fact, the limiting factor and a lot of money is being wasted on building one-offs rather than modifying an existing car.

totally agree !
it just stiffels me how folks cant get,that the pure Physics of the class and "Fast" isnt ever gonna happen. The FUN FACTOR is a .999 but the actual weaponry is .810-.812 :lol:
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
steverife
Posts: 9897
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by steverife »

John Brown wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:32 am
dewittpayne wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:02 pm Mark,
John Crouse's Malibu that runs CAM-T in Charlotte is a C5 Z06 underneath, built with no regard to weight.
Strictly speaking, it's a 1964 Chevelle. Or at least that's what it said in the only 2018 CCR event that he entered, as far as I can tell. And it wasn't fast. You have to match the wheelbase and track and outer body dimensions. It still remains to be seen if tires are, in fact, the limiting factor and a lot of money is being wasted on building one-offs rather than modifying an existing car.

totally agree !
it just stiffels me how folks cant get,that the pure Physics of the class and "Fast" isnt ever gonna happen. The FUN FACTOR is a .999 but the actual weaponry is .810-.812 :lol:
Don't blame the rest of the classes because you guys chose to build bigger, heavier cars for a finesse sport.

Look at CAMT. I have no idea who the dude is who won or what he has done to his car, but he is PAX'ing a dozen national champions on FALKENS at his locals. I'm sure he is a great driver, but you can't tell me that he is 1.5 seconds faster than the best in the sport.
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
jcox07
Posts: 7030
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:40 am

Re: 2019 pax

Post by jcox07 »

Steve, it depends on what classes those national champions are in as we all know pax is a skewed number and yea he could pax them if their pax is a high number.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
John Brown
Posts: 8798
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:05 am

Re: 2019 pax

Post by John Brown »

Steve, the whole point is.. pax is or SHOULD be derived from history.. there should not be anyone to blame.. thats the only data we have.. history.

future tense is not DATA.
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
jcox07
Posts: 7030
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:40 am

Re: 2019 pax

Post by jcox07 »

I also think pax should be based solely on national events.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
jcox07
Posts: 7030
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:40 am

Re: 2019 pax

Post by jcox07 »

I went back and looked at Bristol events only and in a pax based index I lost event one by 1.8 to the winner and bms event 2 by half a second and bms event 3 by 1.9 and bms event 4 by 2.4 and bms event 5 by 1.2 and bms event 6 by 2.0xx, so I guess I can see how someone could beat national champions by 1.5 seconds in a pax based index like a pro class.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
steverife
Posts: 9897
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: 2019 pax

Post by steverife »

John Brown wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:06 am Steve, the whole point is.. pax is or SHOULD be derived from history.. there should not be anyone to blame.. thats the only data we have.. history.

future tense is not DATA.
It is a defined as a theoretical performance measure.

I agree that it makes it inherently flawed, but running it solely off last year's data would be arguably even more flawed.
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
Post Reply