East Tennessee Region SCCA

I agree with John's point. Only so much you can do with tires and weight.

But, perception often becomes the truth, and not just in CAM. So, I think that it's important to create rules that support parity as much as possible for any class

John Brown wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm ya'll got a different outlook on CAM than I do..
There isn't enuff money made to over come 3000 lbs and 200TW tires. Yea, the class will get somewhat faster.. but it aint NEVER gonna be a "damm those cars are fast" class...

I second that.

There's also the problem of center of gravity location and other inertial parameters. I've been unsuccessfully trying to find the data, but I'm betting that an STU Nissan 350z, say, has a lower CG height, shorter wheelbase, narrower track and less forward weight bias than your typical CAM car, even if you could get it down to the minimum weight, all of which means it will be faster most of the time. Narrow track by itself should theoretically lower grip by increasing weight transfer, but overall should improve slalom speed. Not to mention that using 335 section tires on 12 inch wide wheels usually increases track width, or at least it does on my car.

I know that I am new to all of these ideas and have only ran CAM except for a few event when I started. But can some tell me what the purpose of comparing CAM to any other class and the times they run? I understand that it would make a difference in some cases, like our local pro class, and when someone would get bumped at a Pro, but any other National event, what difference does it make?

It shouldn't make a difference at all but when the pax results come out for said event and if a cam car is up in the top 10 in pax, that whens it starts to get real.....You still spend money on bars and coilovers and light weight stuff to try and get the car as light as possible, so yeah folks are spending money on cam builds and most cam builds could run hoosiers in ASP, ESP or SSM, SSP, or probably several other classes and it is just like after every national event that if a cam car or big car is in the top 10 in pax that it was a cam course or vice versa if it is all little cars in the top 10 in pax, it was a Miata course and I don't see that ever going away unless you get lucky and there are 5 little and 5 big cars in the top 10. Pax is broke and we all know this and I have turned my numbers in to compare them with Ricks after several national events if we get lucky and have dry runs for everyone and see if pax can be fixed. I think it can be fixed easily but it takes some time to figure out the right numbers.

DiaboJim wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:13 pm I know that I am new to all of these ideas and have only ran CAM except for a few event when I started. But can some tell me what the purpose of comparing CAM to any other class and the times they run? I understand that it would make a difference in some cases, like our local pro class, and when someone would get bumped at a Pro, but any other National event, what difference does it make?

You are right.

...but we do use PAX and it did just come out. And PAX tells us that being able to drop your weight to 3300 and do virtually whatever mods you want is worth less than .18 seconds compared to the BS Mustang/Camaro versions.

That tells me that either...
A) CAM is underperforming
B) PAX is way too soft
C) CAM is a dumb waste of money

Heres what I hear...
every body that doesnt run CAM.. judging CAM.

all those folks need to jump in one.. and show us CAM drivers how its done. Its that simple.

and if not.. go back to judging FM..

To be fair to CAM,

I do understand that we like modding our cars and making them look cooler and make more power and sound better, and you get to learn about tuning and car setup, etc.

And that driving a raw modded car to a 45.5 or whatever is a different experience than driving a stock version to a 45.6 or 45.7 or whatever. It just sucks for everyone else if (when) that car gets to 44's.

John Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:44 am Heres what I hear...
every body that doesnt run CAM.. judging CAM.

all those folks need to jump in one.. and show us CAM drivers how its done. Its that simple.

and if not.. go back to judging FM..

I drove a couple at a CCR weekend. I thought it was miserable and I'd quit autocross if I had to do that more than a one off event. The only part remotely fun was the straight.

edit: Two of my favorite parts of autocross are really fast transitions where I can stay in the throttle. And being able to see out the windshield. Neither were possible in the cars that I drove.

so, you showed CAM class how its done that weekend?

John Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:50 am so, you showed CAM class how its done that weekend?

I don't want to show CAM how it is done.

And there we have the difference in a big car vs a small car and how they drive.....

jcox07 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:54 am And there we have the difference in a big car vs a small car and how they drive.....

I'd driven that course in my FRS first.

There were some really painful tight sections in the FRS and then some fun fast offsets.

In the big cars, the tight stuff was less painful because you easily get back up to speed on exit, but the fast offsets required a lot of patience and weren't especially fun for me.

The power cars do get you back up to speed faster I agree, but in the painful areas you lose more time than you can gain back on most of that type of course cause there are rarely enough straights to make up the difference.

A guy ask me why I chose the Dodge for CAM..
simple..
I'll never be out rawed by my FS counter part.

or at least I hope so...