Novice program

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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:54 am

Fun runs are tough. We were doing them at Pelli when I was chairing an event or 2 a year and dumping cones with Gebbia when he would chair an event or 2 a year.

...even with me living 5 minutes away, it was a grind. The same 3 to 6 people that were bringing the trailer, dumping cones at 6 or 7 am etc were the same people that were tying up trash bags and locking the trailer at 6 or 7 PM.
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ConeEater
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Re: Novice program

Post by ConeEater » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:59 am

I agree 100%... that's why it needs to be made clear... if you stay for fun runs, you stay to help clean up. Period. You'll learn really quick who wants to fun run.
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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:15 pm

ConeEater wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:59 am
I agree 100%... that's why it needs to be made clear... if you stay for fun runs, you stay to help clean up. Period. You'll learn really quick who wants to fun run.
That helps a bit, but as a trailer hauler or chair or whatever, you've still got to be there, even though you may not have the time or energy to take runs yourself.

...so that is where the buy in needs to come from.
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jcox07
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Re: Novice program

Post by jcox07 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:59 pm

I think a test n tune would better benefit that than fun runs after an event, I know some took over 25 runs at the test n tune and I don't mind being there for that with the same thing as this past test n tune where it is tied into an event on the next day.
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timray
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Re: Novice program

Post by timray » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:46 pm

I'm not so much inclined to offer anything super structured that may help, but I know anyone who gets assistance from Jim and Ariel always benefit and it seems they stick with it.
Bron and I are back to a place that we can attend most all events. Much like Jim and Ariel, we absolutely love working with new folks.
I got to assist some first timers this past event and they will most definitely be back.
Always glad to help.
I will say that of the 4 regions we have ran with in the last 8 years, ETR by far offers more help/guidance to new peeps to the sport.

steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:34 am

I know that one of the concerns from an operational standpoint is committing manpower.

We can implement a mentor program without tying it to work assignments. We can do things like team competitions (pair a novice/pro/open or whatever) that might build some comradery and do it unofficially without impacting the event in any way. Etc, etc, etc.
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dewittpayne
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Re: Novice program

Post by dewittpayne » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:21 am

IMO, CCR has the best novice program. One of the features is the ability to have an instructor drive a novice's car for a run that doesn't count. Novices also get one more run than other drivers. Having someone show you in your own car how much faster you could be is really effective. It's a feature of of EVO schools, for example.
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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:29 am

Yeah. I've instructed with CCR for maybe 4 or so events and absolutely love it.
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jcox07
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Re: Novice program

Post by jcox07 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:51 am

Only problem with having someone else drive your car is if you are new and don't want anyone else driving your car which I have seen even at schools and local events. It is hard to get some folks to take help as I have asked many if they want someone to ride with them to help them and get told no, I got it.
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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:03 am

I've probably had 15-20 students with CCR (Instructors work 2 heats and generally have 2-3 students per heat). I've driven 2 cars. One guy begged me to drive his car. And I had a 16 year old girl and after 2 runs, I decided that it would be best to show her. Asked her and her dad if I could drive the car and they approved. And I drove it. And she then got back in the car and dropped about 10 seconds. If either said no to me driving, it would have been my job to find a better way to get my points across verbally.

The reason it works so well with CCR is that they treat it like a functional and operational part of the event. It isn't something where you have instructors once you fill everything else up. They, of course, have more entries, so it is easier for them to treat it that way.

It is also a requirement, as a novice. Your instructor has to sign you off to go solo, much like at a track day. Don't want an instructor in the car, don't start autocrossing with CCR. That may seem like an overreach, but I also can't really see someone unwilling to even take a passenger as a novice really sticking with this sport and all the commitment that it takes. Plus, we are entrusting you to go out and drive about 60+ mph around a bunch of people standing around, so it doesn't seem totally unreasonable to have some kind of approval process.
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jcox07
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Re: Novice program

Post by jcox07 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:20 am

As much as that may be Steve, there is no approval process in place by the national office which means if someone reports ccr to the office then they will have a major issue on their hands as all regions are bound by scca policy and that isn't one for solo.
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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:59 am

Can't see how. They aren't violating anything regarding passenger rules and Section 4.1.D gives discretion for event organizers to refuse entry or continued runs.
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thrdeye
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Re: Novice program

Post by thrdeye » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:46 pm

I was going to say something like what Steve said. For them, it's not something that's "tacked on" to the event. It is ingrained and seems to work really well.
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thrdeye
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Re: Novice program

Post by thrdeye » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:56 pm

I'll add this. Even thought it's not apples to apples, maybe it will spark some ideas.

Back when I first started doing martial arts, you basically had someone with you that was experienced for your first 5+ classes, beginning to end, that was giving you one on one instruction. This was absolutely necessary because much like autocross, it's a pretty out of the norm for most people be able to understand what to do on their own. Let's face it, they're both kinda weird.

Aside from having a novice check in area and having several someones waiting in the wings to show people around, I'm not sure how to achieve a similar experience, especially since autocross is about competing and most people that are able to help have their own stuff to worry about too. But, if you could get groups of 3-4 novices together that shadowed someone and they all got into the same run group....it could be pretty cool.

Still, CCR probably has the best functional novice program I've seen. But they have more people, as already mentioned.
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steverife
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Re: Novice program

Post by steverife » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:13 pm

...and even with CCR, it is going to be something of a hit or miss experience.

Some instructors might just be looking to drive cars or get more looks at the course. Some just want to get that work assignment box checked and go have a beer. That's life.

...and the student has to buy in, too. I ask people what they want. I've had people that want nothing from me. I rode with them once and then did nothing other than bring them a water and check on them a couple times. And that's fine. Others might want to be fastest novice or beat their brother or their buddy and then I do everything I can to help them accomplish that. And it is really fulfilling to see someone accomplish a goal like that. Or have a modest goal for themselves and obliterate it.
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