jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
No argument from me on being terrifying without hoosiers. It's an SM car though, not stock. I can see the 'SS', 'AS' and 'FS' argument though. Those cars become quite sketchy/undrivable when you take away their Hoosiers.
If this goes through, I'd probably think about a Mustang on streets.
Are you kidding me?? Exactly how much fun does that sound like? and you aint having fun in a lil car on slick tires... that fat pig car on streets sounds like total stress to me..
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
Steve, it had better be a mustang with low power. If you get any power at all and don't have a low tw tire, you will not like the results. Even when my car was new and completly stock it had 490 rwhp and was still very scary with the 220 tw goodyear supercar f1's on it.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
steverife wrote:If this goes through, I'd probably think about a Mustang on streets.
Are you kidding me?? Exactly how much fun does that sound like? and you aint having fun in a lil car on slick tires... that fat pig car on streets sounds like total stress to me..
I'm having fun in the CRX. I just want to have a street car that I enjoy for a change.
jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
I think you missed my point. Sure any car is more fun to drive with Hoosiers (which I said), but the other stuff that you have to deal with to run Hoosiers outweighs any fun that I (and many many others) have on R's
....and see my letter for thoughts on Super Stock & Hoosiers. I agree with you regarding hi-po cars on streets, but I also think that (solely based on participation numbers), SS is the only class that deserves the current status quo.
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
Also, I want to make another point about the hi-po cars. There is a maximum amount of power that is of any benefit on an autocross course unless you can run aero. Robert never maximized the power in his SSP car, because he already couldn't use it all anyway. Anything north of 300 to the wheels (even AWD cars) requires much more patience and skill to drive (quickly) on an autocross course, regardless of tire choice.
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
Scooter and I have learned to drive the car without using all the power as our times have improved and the wheel spin is all but gone away due to us not using all the right pedal ( gas ). Our raw times at our lot is mostly near the top, if I go to any 140 tw or higher my car goes to the bottom of raw times, and at national events it should be better as it is a totally new car for me to learn to drive due to it turning and sticking so much better. I do get your point, but disagree with the tires. If you take away hoosiers I think alot of drivers would not show up to race, as Mark Pilson has stated he would not and many more would follow in his footsteps and they would be the more seasoned drivers. I am not saying the scca should not have a tire class, but leave the classes that are there now alone and create a new one and if it catches on great, but when most of those drivers get a taste of hoosier they will not be back on street tires.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
I think you missed my point. Sure any car is more fun to drive with Hoosiers (which I said), but the other stuff that you have to deal with to run Hoosiers outweighs any fun that I (and many many others) have on R's
....and see my letter for thoughts on Super Stock & Hoosiers. I agree with you regarding hi-po cars on streets, but I also think that (solely based on participation numbers), SS is the only class that deserves the current status quo.
What is unique to running the Hoosiers?
I've ran both "seriously". It almost feels like running street tires is more work.
jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
I think you missed my point. Sure any car is more fun to drive with Hoosiers (which I said), but the other stuff that you have to deal with to run Hoosiers outweighs any fun that I (and many many others) have on R's
....and see my letter for thoughts on Super Stock & Hoosiers. I agree with you regarding hi-po cars on streets, but I also think that (solely based on participation numbers), SS is the only class that deserves the current status quo.
What is unique to running the Hoosiers?
I've ran both "seriously". It almost feels like running street tires is more work.
For me, the stress is there much more-so with Hoosiers. When you do the math and realize you are spending over $15 PER RUN in tires, the $25 autocross just cost you $100+
I'm the type of guy that would probably feel similar about $5/run run on toyo's, though.
As I said before, hoosiers are run, but I'm fine with streets too. In my situation, I've got a car that will drive well on either, and be nationally competitive on neither. I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks on tires.
jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
I think you missed my point. Sure any car is more fun to drive with Hoosiers (which I said), but the other stuff that you have to deal with to run Hoosiers outweighs any fun that I (and many many others) have on R's
....and see my letter for thoughts on Super Stock & Hoosiers. I agree with you regarding hi-po cars on streets, but I also think that (solely based on participation numbers), SS is the only class that deserves the current status quo.
What is unique to running the Hoosiers?
I've ran both "seriously". It almost feels like running street tires is more work.
Nothing that hasn't been said before.
Initial cost
Poor Wear
Sensitivity to heat cycles
Bagging
For me, I could not have fun on the Kumho because I was trying to "preserve" it instead of drive it since I knew they had to last until the end of the year. Could have run streets locally I suppose, but then you're still not learning to drive the tire. In STX/U/RT, I was much more aggressive and slide the car around. Which is, to me, more fun.
One of the biggest things that I look forward to is being able to go to a school and not worry about the fact that I'll kill tires. I think up until now this is why I have not done a school.
I can see that running the toyo and shaving is probably a lot of work too though.
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
the hardest part of Toyos is getting them worn down to the perfect level..(barely an image of tread) just before a National event.. lol
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
I got more runs out of Hoosiers on a no-camber "tire eating" these people and their budgets need to be rescued car than we get from the Toyos.
The worst thing about the Toyos is I still have no clue when they are fastest...and they go from pretty damn fast to I need to go home before I wad up the car from one event to the next and you never know when that is going to hit. That stresses me and I never KNOW if my tires are "right" for nationals.
It is kinda nice to break out sticker tires before the big event and not have to worry about that. The money I save on tires is spent on gas and ball joints, etc, etc.
Running street tires at our lot on my car would be like ok which pole am I going to hit. I am not saying sliding the car sideways is not fun, just not fun trying to get a good time. The options for my car on streets is very limited as well, which is why I like hoosiers. I know how they are going to react all the way down to the cords.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021, 2022, 2023 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
Yeah I'm glad to see the proposal address wheel sizes. Anyone with 19s could go to 18's which would be a huge help. I suggested that any vehicle with 19 or larger could go down to an 18 (some cars are now getting 20's from the factory) Barf.
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
