jcox07 wrote:Chris I have to disagree, you take away the hoosiers on my car and it AIN'T fun to drive at all. It is down right scary, just ask Gary M what is was like at Walter State without the hoosiers. Yes it is not really a autox car, but I do so love to drive it on the PURPLE CRACK.
No argument from me on being terrifying without hoosiers. It's an SM car though, not stock. I can see the 'SS', 'AS' and 'FS' argument though. Those cars become quite sketchy/undrivable when you take away their Hoosiers.
yet I'm thinking that the car would be even worse as a Stock classed car ... it wouldn't have the mods that actually help his car ... the only thing the stock classed car has is the Hoosiers
“The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.”
walter jones '91 civic CRX, Ford F150, '14 Chevy Sonic
ke0ki2k wrote:"At its core, it comes down to a simple philosophy, autocrossing should be fun, and the SEB’s belief that, more than any single factor, stock class participation has declined because the current ruleset does not provide the allowances needed to make a modern car fun to autocross."
so therefore.. take away the biggest 'fun' factor of stock class (hoosiers)?
this goes to the another problem I have with all this ( actually several problems .... this is just one)
A: stock isn't where most people come to auto-crossing ... very few come with a car that isn't modified in some way ... so basically stock is a prep class that people decide to compete in ...
B: is the overall participation going down ? ( I'm under the impression that club wide it's stable or actually increasing) ... which begs the question, are people leaving the sport ( and it doesn't seem like it) or are they moving from stock to other classes ? it that's the case would they come back when they have to make the same modifications to run Street as they've already made to run ST, SP or where ever ?
“The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.”
walter jones '91 civic CRX, Ford F150, '14 Chevy Sonic
integra55 wrote:
this goes to the another problem I have with all this ( actually several problems .... this is just one)
A: stock isn't where most people come to auto-crossing ... very few come with a car that isn't modified in some way ... so basically stock is a prep class that people decide to compete in ...
B: is the overall participation going down ? ( I'm under the impression that club wide it's stable or actually increasing) ... which begs the question, are people leaving the sport ( and it doesn't seem like it) or are they moving from stock to other classes ? it that's the case would they come back when they have to make the same modifications to run Street as they've already made to run ST, SP or where ever ?
A) I think your statement here is actually more supportive of the proposal than anything
B) Yes, I'm under the impression that numbers are "stable" overall, but there is more new blood in ST, and Stock participation has declined pretty seriously over the last several years.
The RT classes at nationals 2012 did a very good job of getting a lot of rookies to come to a big event. Without these people, participation would have been down about 5%-7%
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
thrdeye wrote:The RT classes at nationals 2012 did a very good job of getting a lot of rookies to come to a big event. Without these people, participation would have been down about 5%-7%
You have to look at the total picture. I know of many stock classers that stayed home for the first time in years because stock attendence was down.
thrdeye wrote:The RT classes at nationals 2012 did a very good job of getting a lot of rookies to come to a big event. Without these people, participation would have been down about 5%-7%
You have to look at the total picture. I know of many stock classers that stayed home for the first time in years because stock attendence was down.
Yeah glad some changes are being proposed.
Chris Harp
2009 Mazda RX-8 | 2018 Toyota Tundra | 2011 BMW M3
Overall, attendance numbers are pretty static. I can't see a widespread change in numbers based on classing changes. There hasn't been one since I paid attention to the sport. Finding your class is a small part of the nationals commitment. It is going to take a change format to change attendance numbers..
what are they (SCCA) wanting to accomplish? more competitors?
and another question. Where are all the increases that we are gonna get from these changes gonna run?? Seems to me that maybe site acquisition might need to be at the pointy end of the stick.
Im just thinking out loud...
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
I've shot in the National Matches (rifle) for years (at least the last 7).
There are about 50,000 (at least somewhat) competitive (service rifle) shooters nationally.
Anybody want to guess what the numbers are like at the (service rifle) National Matches? Bear in mind, everyone has (essentially) the same equipment, it's one big class (all you have to do is win, or at least try not embarress yourself).
1200 to 1400 (every year). Held at Camp Perry, Ohio (just slightly east of Toledo, Port Clinton specifically). It's way cheaper than autoX (or any other racing).
Just things to ponder. And I don't think A6s have any place in "stock" (but in reality, it probably doesn't make any difference in national numbers)
Wheelman_13 wrote:
YES, a thousand times YES to the +/- 1" wheel allowance. Why was my MR2 Turbo noncompetitive in BS/CS? Oh, right: I can't buy a wide-enough effing hoosier for a 14" rim. kthxbai.
keep in mind that the +/- 1" wheel allowance is for diameter only ... not width
Yup, I understand. the widest 14" tire they made was 225, move to 15" stock wheels (same width) and you could get 275....and yeah, it'd fit on the same rear rim....tire guy might hate you, but it'd fit.
Wheelman_13 wrote:
YES, a thousand times YES to the +/- 1" wheel allowance. Why was my MR2 Turbo noncompetitive in BS/CS? Oh, right: I can't buy a wide-enough effing hoosier for a 14" rim. kthxbai.
keep in mind that the +/- 1" wheel allowance is for diameter only ... not width
Yup, I understand. the widest 14" tire they made was 225, move to 15" stock wheels (same width) and you could get 275....and yeah, it'd fit on the same rear rim....tire guy might hate you, but it'd fit.
A particular yellow MR2 was fastest on 205/50-15 and 225/45-15 tires. They share the exact outer molds that 205/55-14 and the 225/50-14 tires come out of. The driver of that yellow car was some kind of national champion and instructor.
but yeah, there are more 15" tires. Nobody really makes 13" tires so the IT road racers are allowed to change rims sizes. Ah, rules creap
The driver of that yellow car was some kind of national champion and instructor. 
