April Fastrack

[TedV]

so the turdblo cars had 14" rims and the NA cars had 15" rims? WTF Toyota???

[steverife]

They all had 14's in 91-92, then switched to 15's.

[MARKP]

The turbo cars weren't going to be fast in stock no matter what. They have been poorly classed for a long time. Carter is about the only one that did well with one. Oh, and he had 14" wheels.

The reason the 15" cars were faster really didn't have anything to do with the wheel size. It had more to do with the better rear suspension geometry that made the cars easier to drive at the limit.

[integra55]

A particular yellow MR2 was fastest on 205/50-15 and 225/45-15 tires. They share the exact outer molds that 205/55-14 and the 225/50-14 tires come out of. The driver of that yellow car was some kind of national champion and instructor.

but yeah, there are more 15" tires. Nobody really makes 13" tires so the IT road racers are allowed to change rims sizes. Ah, rules creap

I love my 13" .... but those are R-comps and that's what all this is about isn't it ?

[steverife]

Heitkotter had some success in a '93 a few years ago against the RX-8's. Of course now they are all buried behind the trunk kit cars.

[TedV]

Well now, that splains it. That's been the challenge of stock class in the past. Pick the car with the best advantage trim package to exploit. I'm still pondering on how the proposal will actually work out. I'm kinda glad I like Mod Cars.

[MARKP]

I'm kinda glad I like Mod Cars.

You gonna drag that Ford back out? Want a co-drive? Think my fat azz can fit in it?

[MikeKelly]

Well there are bigger things at play here. Re read the solomatters article and take note of the part about the football stadium.

I just read the solomatters article three times, but I don't see anything regarding a football stadium.

I must be on the wrong article.

http://www.solomatters.com/2013/03/stre ... explained/

(But I do understand the other factors at play here, I was just suggesting that there's a very limited percentage of people who are going to pursue that sort of thing at the national level, regardless of the rules or costs)

[integra55]

to me the solomatters article seem like nothing more than putting a heavy load of lipstick on the pig that is the FastTrack article ...

really don't see any more than 50 - 60% of the proposals making the final cut

[steverife]

(But I do understand the other factors at play here, I was just suggesting that there's a very limited percentage of people who are going to pursue that sort of thing at the national level, regardless of the rules or costs)

I could not agree more. Regardless of rules, you still going to have to take off work, get clearance from home, travel long distances (sometimes at odd hours), spend big money on hotels/gas, etc, etc, etc to run a national schedule.

Also, I've been to solo nats the last 6 years. Of those, I've had a one-off co-drive 3 years. If you REALLY want to compete nationally, the absolute cheapest way to do it is to do whatever you want locally and rent a ride a few times a year.

[thrdeye]

Sorry guys, got my wires crossed. It was from Heyward's facebook. Take some time to read this if you can...I have a lot of respect for this guy.

From Heyward Wagner:
<taking off my SCCA employee hat and putting on my SCCA member hat>

My perspective on the "Street Proposal". First of all, though I did write the SM article below, it should not be mistake for a blind endorsement. I do have my concerns, namely the wisdom of limited prep cars in SP (given course dependency issues) and the +/-1 Wheel diameter allowance (given that it would not get a 20 inch car to a useable wheel, i.e. 18, and that it could cause testing chaos in the 15-18 range). However, on the whole, I believe we need rules that make sense to grow the sport and I do think that this is a step towards that.

My request of those of you who are immediately opposed, is that you keep perspective. Hard as it may seem to believe, this is not about you. Please do not read that to mean that you are not valued, respected or listened to, you are. If you were not this process would be painless, which I assure you, it is not. It is also not about doing what is the absolute best thing for the 237 drivers who competed in stock class at nationals last year. While we must continue to serve that community to the best of our ability, we also need to recognize that catering to it exclusively has not been a formula for growth at any level.

There very well may be those who reject the need for growth, believing that, as a membership organization our first goal should be serving the members. I do not disagree, but I see serving the members differently. We are at a crux. Sites are becoming harder and harder to secure, insurance is a constant battle and sponsors are fleeting. The solution to all of these problems is relevancy. The large we are, the more respect and attention we demand, the more leverage we can wield, and the more access we will be granted.

The reality is, our entire club, including Club Racers, Soloist, Rally folk and non-active members will fit neatly into one side of a major college football stadium. It is time that we start addressing that on the most basic levels. No amount of marketing will ever provide a long term growth solution if we cannot arrive at a rules structure for our sport that is logical and makes the sport an easier and more fun place to play. If you would like to disagree that the proposed rules do not do that as a basis, please do. However, if your reaction is that this is a punitive action against the status quo, if your intent is to protect what we have I will ask you to please take a step back and and realize, this is not about the right now you.

This is not about the you who likes r-compounds, or who just bought a very specific new car for a class. This is not about having a pathway to the sport that matches the one you took. This is not about now. This is about the future. This is about building a foundation for growth. This is about being a club for a strong community of driving enthusiast to play. We can disagree about what that path may look like, but I urge you to get on that path. The future of our sport requires it.

[steverife]

The more I think about the camber thing, the more I hate it. The bulk of the Mazda 3 folks have pushed pretty hard for street tires, but none of them are willing to cut their virgin strut towers to make plates work with stock springs.

[flier129]

I saw that FB post, Strano is ready to murder somebody, lol.

[MikeKelly]

Take some time to read this if you can.

I don't disagree with any of that.

I would suggest that the most beneficial aspect of autoX is learning "car control", mostly on street tires in DDs. It's underpromoted, and the current rules / classing / PAX chasing SOLOII mindset undermine what is perhaps the easiest selling point.

Street survival schools are fine and good, but you don't learn and polish those sorts of skills in one weekend.

If someone ever finds a way to demonstrate that 2 years of trying to go faster at local autocrosses reduces your chances of unintentionally losing control of a vehicle or obliviously exceeding your own capabilities to essentially 0.00%... the insurance companies would be spending their lobbying dollars trying to mandate autoX participaton, rather than airbags, stability control and all that other crap they're pushing now.

And they'd come out ahead, because saving yourself and your car by learning to drive is way cheaper than trying to save your oblivious rear end with an airbag...


So do the proposed rule changes create a friendlier entry into autoX? Maybe, but I'm not sure the rules are the biggest part of the problem, if you see what I'm trying to say.


Just a few thoughts,

Mike


P.S. And since we now live in a country where most would rather just sit on the couch and watch it on reality TV, it may be fairly hopeless. But SCCA could probably do better than 50,000...

[TedV]

I'm kinda glad I like Mod Cars.

You gonna drag that Ford back out? Want a co-drive? Think my fat azz can fit in it?

The Ford is quietly up for sale, but I'm not really pushing hard to sell it. It needs some chassis and suspension work to put it in the trophies on sticky tires. Now if CM mandated hard R60 tires, the chassis WORKS!!! as it sits but still could use some tweaking. Yes, your fat azz can be made to fit in it with making the seat base to you, then a spacer to fit me. Just takes a little time.

However, I am working on another mod chassis that should be cheaper to opperate and get to events. Jury is still out how it will work out. Yes, I do have racecar ADHD, why do you ask? and where can I find John Deere green touch up paint? so far Lowes has it in rustoleum rattle can

P.S. And since we now live in a country where most would rather just sit on the couch and watch it on reality TV, it may be fairly hopeless. But SCCA could probably do better than 50,000...

I have a problem will everyone who watches reality TV. I prefer to go out and experience it. So much more fun. I do see cashflow being an issue for lots of people.