May Fastrack

Discussions related to Solo
RxCritical
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:31 pm
Location: Lenoir City, Tn

Re: May Fastrack

Post by RxCritical »

Sounds like a good plan!
ConeEater wrote:I agree, Mark... just saying you like it or don't doesn't mean diddly.

Whether or not ANYONE agrees with your viewpoint or opinions on the subject, they are how YOU see it. Perception is a big thing in my book.

Other's have mentioned on other forums and it was a point to be made. No matter what the SEB decides, not everyone is going to be in love with it.

And Paul.... the next time I come down and run, you're driving the Z06 with me.
1) I owe you for letting me hop in last season
2) you really need to see what a difference real grip makes. :)

I agree that people just starting out and really want to learn should not just jump in and buy r-comps. They do hide allot of errors and can give you a false sense of awesomeness, but I think going from street tires to Rs makes a huge difference.

There's going to be allot of cars that aren't going to be as fun as they were this year, but like I've said... time will tell.
Paul M.
ETR Ass. R. E.
C8 #34 SS
Team Canopy
User avatar
ConeEater
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by ConeEater »

Now I'll have to make sure I have good ones on for you :) get you the good stuff to get hooked on.

:rockon:

I still have to keep telling myself...

self...
all this is still a year away... just think of what insanity will ensue by then.
Brian Huber
Car go bye bye.... Brian Sad - will drive your car if you need warm tires
Scalded Snail Racing
MARKP
Posts: 9785
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Farragut, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by MARKP »

John Brown wrote:
integra55 wrote:
ConeEater wrote:yes, that's my take. If you want to run R's you are in an SP class.

looks like next year it's 140TW tires for "Street" and 200TW for 2015.

and 200 TW for ST
I have not read any of this crap... yet.
But.. if ST goes to 200 tw,Ill drop my membership...
You better start reading... ST builds on "Street". Your rules are changing too.
Mark Pilson
03 Z06 / 05 Focus
ETR Secretary
SEDiv SDC
Gold chains and jorts :lol:
User avatar
integra55
Posts: 1808
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:04 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by integra55 »

yeah John ... as the proposal is right now, ST will be on 200 TW tires in 2015 ......


with all the crap that went on last yr about the R1R, I guess this was the easiest way for the SCCA to get rid of the 195's .... since it's the only viable tire left that doesn't fit the requirement .... ( the 'Kook has declared itself a 200 tire now ) so that gives us the Rival, the RE11a, the RS3, the Zll .... don't think anyone cares much about the XS ... not sure about the 615 or the Federal .... which ones am I missing ?
“The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.”

walter jones
'91 civic CRX, Ford F150, '14 Chevy Sonic

828-686-3245
John Brown
Posts: 8644
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:05 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by John Brown »

yea, I know Mark. I have ran every class but Mod. And I understand each classes hurdles... but I also know that if the fun goes away or the cost exceeds my ability to play... Ill do something else. I just dont think that I need to try to be the one to change tire numbers or major class changes are needed to help "me" be competitive. I remember when I first got into the SCCA..I heard it was called the "secret car club of America"
Back then it didn't make much sense... but now.. I kinda see the reason for that. You cant please every newbie that wants to play in this sandbox...

I say, play by the rules.. and change the rules that really render a given car in class.. not the ability of the driver.

Sometimes I think the club is losing its direction.. its like they want to absorbe every body in the world to become a class winner.. when in reality,its for folks that have a dyed in the wool "LOVE" for the sport.. not the "I think I might like to do that" teenager.
:(
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
thrdeye
Posts: 13887
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:31 pm
Location: Lenoir City

Re: May Fastrack

Post by thrdeye »

You guys don't think Toyo will make a good 200? Really? TW is not a true indicator of tire grip. I would doubt any 140s are really 140s. 180 maybe...

The RS3 already has 200 slapped on it with no change at all to the tire.

Toyo has 1.5 years to make a 200. You probably won't see much difference in that tire either.

sent from typotalk
Chris Harp
2019 Honda Civic Si | 2011 BMW M3
TedV
Posts: 6043
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:55 pm

Re: May Fastrack

Post by TedV »

Tire companies will slap whatever UTQG code on a tire they need to sell a tire. Toyo RA1 was something like a 60. The Corvette Club of America wanted to ban Hoosiers so they said, "tires had to have greater than 40". Hoosier always had a 0 since running the test costs money and they would have to pass that cost on to the customer. Hoosier ran the tests long enough to get a 40 and quit. Not too long after that Toyo retested their tires and poof, the RA1 is 100. It's been rumored both the RA1 and the Hoosier road race compound would pass the 140 UTQG test but why do it, they would be banned on the exclusion list in no time.

One of the unintended consequences of the 200 tread wear nobody has thought of, Only 2 driver cars will be in trophies.
Ted V.
don't make me list all my VW's
steverife
Posts: 9760
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by steverife »

I'm fine with 200TW. This is already the 6th season for the R1R. It isn't going to last forever.

I just don't want to have to waste money on an exhaust and a swaybar for an STS car because some people in another category doesn't want to buy Hoosiers/change tires/add a hitch/get curbstomped by Braun/whatever.
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
steverife
Posts: 9760
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by steverife »

TedV wrote:One of the unintended consequences of the 200 tread wear nobody has thought of, Only 2 driver cars will be in trophies.
I don't get it...
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
MARKP
Posts: 9785
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Farragut, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by MARKP »

steverife wrote:
TedV wrote:One of the unintended consequences of the 200 tread wear nobody has thought of, Only 2 driver cars will be in trophies.
I don't get it...
Heat in the tires.
Mark Pilson
03 Z06 / 05 Focus
ETR Secretary
SEDiv SDC
Gold chains and jorts :lol:
MARKP
Posts: 9785
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:51 pm
Location: Farragut, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by MARKP »

In the thought that some of you will be writing letters, I want to throw a few things out there for you to consider. The SEB/SAC know my opinions on this stuff.

When we go to street tires, does a camber adjustment make sense for the "entry level" class?
1) The tires will wear longer and have less grip. The camber challenged cars had a hard time with Hoosiers since they had lots of grip and tended to wear quicker. Since the tire is being loaded harder due to the grip, it has a tendency to use the shoulder more. Doesn't happen with street tires.
2) These are supposed to be dual-purpose cars. They will see a lot more street miles than race miles. Allowing people to get lots of camber will accelerate tire wear on the street.
3) To the newbie coming in that just bought a new car and is making payments, does this make things easier on car prep? You have to find camber plates that don't change the ride height of the car. You possibly have to drill holes in the strut tower of your new car. You have to spend $500 on camber plates. Starts sounding like the argument against shock allowances to me.

Does the +/- wheel allowance make sense in the "entry level" class? Right now, if someone goes and buys aftermarket street wheels that aren't the right size, most of the time they just go grab the stock wheels they already had and throw some tires on the wheels and go. Usually those aftermarket street wheels are a different width as well.
Let's take the example of a car running 16" wheels. Under the new proposal, they can run a 15, 16, or 17" wheel. Now, if you want to be sure you are really fast, you have to test three different wheel diameters. Maybe you even run different diameters for different courses. Does this sound cheap or "entry level"? Why not write the rule so that cars with diameters smaller than 15" can run up to a 15" wheel and cars with wheels larger than 18" can run as small as 18"? That way, people don't invest a bunch of money in different wheel and tire combinations and the cars that can't get a decent 200TW tire can still compete.
Mark Pilson
03 Z06 / 05 Focus
ETR Secretary
SEDiv SDC
Gold chains and jorts :lol:
User avatar
ConeEater
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by ConeEater »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^---- all of this.

x 11-ty billion

how many YOUNG people show up @ events with cars that would fit into Stock/street classes to begin with? Most we've had have intakes, cat-deletes, tunes or any combo of those, on top of hoods, wings, spoilers, springs etc....

over time those guys move INTO a stock classed car once they get into it and want to bne competitive. They don't turn their car BACK to stock.

now, guys in their 30s - 40s might be a different story as they have "been there" in the past and might have an S2000 or WRX or something.

Yes, this doesn't really 'affect' me directly NOW in SS, but indirectly it affects me as it affects my sport's participation.

If I was in AS with an FRC, I would be livid and not looking to do just what Mark said... spend $$$$$$ on numerous combos of tire brands/sizes and wheel/tire combos to see what works.... PLUS then add in how those tires are affected by the sway bar you're running... now experiment with those with the wheel / tire combos.

People are going to still show up with 'race tires'. They are going to now be street tires they don't drive on the street. I've seen that in ST classes, so it will be no different here.
Brian Huber
Car go bye bye.... Brian Sad - will drive your car if you need warm tires
Scalded Snail Racing
steverife
Posts: 9760
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 am
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: May Fastrack

Post by steverife »

MARKP wrote:
steverife wrote:
TedV wrote:One of the unintended consequences of the 200 tread wear nobody has thought of, Only 2 driver cars will be in trophies.
I don't get it...
Heat in the tires.
Why would that be unique to 200+? Isn't that the perception with race tires?

We have no idea of the characteristics of future tires. Heck, we might end up with a tire really sensitive to heat and end up with 200 less people at nats because no one wants a co-drive.
'16 FRS - PSTX 97
jcox07
Posts: 6317
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:40 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by jcox07 »

Almost every tire that is sticky requires a little heat to make it work to it's nth degree ( you like that big/little word). If you have a co-driver you get that heat and then you put tire warmers on to keep the heat in. Just like you and Aaron do and then you cool them, but even after spraying the tires, they are still warmer than when you first ran them and the higher the tw the harder the tire which = less grip and imo less fun. Each tire company can put whatever tw rating on the tire, which I think they are already doing, so the scca should just stop wasting time and money and leave well enough alone. If they want a 200 tw class and it has enough drivers then do what they have done in the past and make a new class. BOOM problem solved.
JY ( Jeff ) Cox
ETR R.E
2018-2021 Solo Nationals Co Chairman
2010 GT500
User avatar
ConeEater
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am

Re: May Fastrack

Post by ConeEater »

There's already too many classes. They need to re-org the stock classes and get rid of 2-3.

The RT classes still hurt those with HP RWD cars that don't like street tires as much but those people that don't want to invest in Rs. But, like John said... you have to pay to play. If I'm on crappy 60+ run A6s I don't expect to trophy, but it's still more fun than street tires.

There's stock class guys that run without co-drivers that trophy. I don't know about street tires. I've heard that some of the tires in the past didn't like heat from 2 drivers.
Brian Huber
Car go bye bye.... Brian Sad - will drive your car if you need warm tires
Scalded Snail Racing
Post Reply