May Fastrack

[thrdeye]

Oh yeah, I've already resigned to the fact that I may have to get a different car, but if the Subie stays competitive, I'll run it. It's really tough with AWD though. There is no question that there is an advantage for AWD cars. I'm a bit scared because the WRX I have is not incredibly different from the STi, but is still slower.

Theoretically, if the camber allowance goes through, you could class cars with hard data - power, weight, wheel size. But, if you use that formula and have 2 cars with the same parameters, but one is AWD, then the AWD car should be able to win 90% of the time.. So, where does the AWD car go to be competitive but not an overdog?

[GaryM]

Oh yeah, I've already resigned to the fact that I may have to get a different car, but if the Subie stays competitive, I'll run it. It's really tough with AWD though. There is no question that there is an advantage for AWD cars. I'm a bit scared because the WRX I have is not incredibly different from the STi, but is still slower.

Theoretically, if the camber allowance goes through, you could class cars with hard data - power, weight, wheel size. But, if you use that formula and have 2 cars with the same parameters, but one is AWD, then the AWD car should be able to win 90% of the time.. So, where does the AWD car go to be competitive but not an overdog?

Into a class with other AWD cars!

[thrdeye]

Well, what I'm saying is that other AWD cars are probably significantly above or below the performance envelope of the 2011-2013 WRX.

Let's see

STi
EVO
Audi (is the DS one quattro?)
Impreza

That's really about it. Maybe some Porsche's, but those would be up the ladder as well.

[TedV]

I just don't agree that moving to 200TW is going to dictact that you have to have a co-driver. There will be tires where that will be a benefit and there will be tires where that is a disadvantage. A lot of the FWD Toyo folks were swapping tires between runs to manage the heat at nats.

Eh, I've only been involved in the competition tire industry for 20 plus years, I could be wrong. Competitive people will do whatever it takes to gain an advantage. The Upward Bound racer will complain about something no matter what and demand rule changes. Hard tires will respond to heat by becoming softer, unless they are so hard they never get softer with temp. The FWD cars abuse the front, so yeah the front will get to temp but the rear will never get to temp and become drift/spin city as the cold tires try to pass the front of the car from no grip. A driver who can handle an unpredictable rotating FWD car will capitalize. Since most stock cars understeer from the factory this might work out well to get cars to rotate. Good for some, sucks for others.

The first rule of motorsports "speed is money, how fast can you afford to go?"
the second rule of motorsports "when all else fails, blame the tires"

I can't think of any stock class car sold today that is fun for me to drive except the classes that have lots of competitors in them now. The economy took a dive in 2008. gee, thats when stock numbers dropped. Ice racing and rallycross are fun on limited grip surfaces, so who knows. I really like the ballance of Johns ST miata, but I missed the head snapping G's that didn't occur in any direction, so now there will be even less of said G's? Less fun will bring in more people how??? I never will run a stock class car, so I'm not sending in any letters. Those that want the rules changed need to run the RT classes. If the RT classes become larger than the Stock classes, forget the current stock class and make it RT. It's been built and not many have come to RT, so now mandate road tires in stock? The kneejerk reaction doesn't make sense to me. Hmm.. maybe I do have a letter in there.

if SCCA wants cheap fun where you drive the daily driver vehicle to events, why not make a "Spec Yard Kart" class. The daily driver doesn't have to change one bit and it now tows the yard kart to events.

I still say SCCA is moving towards 1200 classes for 1200 people so everybody gets a trophy. WOW, I didn't rant half as much as I thought I would once I got started.

[steverife]

Do you feel like you *have* to have a co-driver in street touring? I don't, and it shouldn't be any different than that.

[ConeEater]

Well, what I'm saying is that other AWD cars are probably significantly above or below the performance envelope of the 2011-2013 WRX.

Let's see

STi
EVO
Audi (is the DS one quattro?)
Impreza

That's really about it. Maybe some Porsche's, but those would be up the ladder as well.

Yes, the regular ( not TTs ) TT is in DS in either FWD or AWD trim.

The newer ones have proven to be competitive but the 1st gen cars weren't as much unless you ran that ALMS edition that only Canada got like JT used to run.

So, don't forget the 04 R32 either. Basically the same car but with higher CG. A hoot to use @ Pros but never quite got comfy with the steering on those in slalom heavy courses.

[PushinTheLimit]

Well, what I'm saying is that other AWD cars are probably significantly above or below the performance envelope of the 2011-2013 WRX.

Let's see

STi
EVO
Audi (is the DS one quattro?)
Impreza

That's really about it. Maybe some Porsche's, but those would be up the ladder as well.

If it goes that route, you could assign AWD cars a modifer. What exactly that would be so to be fair, I don't know. Nasa does this in their racing formulas and I haven't seen too many complaints about that from guys that race AWD cars. There is also modifiers for car that are 4 door to give them back some performance.

To me, I could see a scenario above working but it would still be a game changer to anyone involved in SCCA autox.

[jcox07]

AWD's in my class (sm) generally always win at national events, due to have power and running on Hoosiers. My car is not a sm class car, but I did not buy it to autox and there has only been one car that was right at my power level and it was a gtr awd with 600 rwhp and it was a rocket. This has always been my problem with scca they make no allowance for awd cars vs. front or rear wheel drive, they are all classed together depending on the car.

[ConeEater]

Well, they HAVE addressed that to some extent...

STF, SMF

That being said, they took allot of cars out of SM and ST when they made SSM ( SM2 ) and STS ( STS2 ) to balance out the 2 seaters from the 4 seaters.

[jcox07]

Yeah but the sti, evo, wrx with power mods are still in sm and generally always one of those will win when they run in sm class.

[ConeEater]

EVO took 3rd @ nats this past year with a BMW and a Nissan 240 beating it.

[TedV]

Do you feel like you *have* to have a co-driver in street touring? I don't, and it shouldn't be any different than that.

Allrighty, go win you a championship or trophy at nationals on some 200 TW tires.

[jcox07]

At nationals yes Brian the evo got third, but at the june blytheville event last year the evo won and at dixie this year the sti won and at peru last year another evo won and dixie last year a gtr awd won. There is a pattern there, more than not the awd wins in my class.

[ConeEater]

yes, fair enough. I still don't see them making classes across the board to dump RWD,FWD,AWD on their own. STF and SMF are odd enough on their own.
I understand it... the cars are at a huge disadvantage compared to RWD/AWD cars, but that's no different than stock classes with many cars in the same class.

[jcox07]

All I am saying is if scca is making a road tire front wheel drive and a road tire rear wheel drive and a road tire awd what is the difference between those classes and other classes.