Regional #5

[ke0ki2k]

I'm not sure why Mike only has 1 run recorded.

My first run was DNF - talent starvation at the bottom of the hill.

They must have been having timing issues to mark that a rerun.

I guess that 81.xx+1 is your second run.. after your spin it took a minute to get going again & we flagged the other car on course - who I think failed to go through the finish lights. I ended up clearing the entry from your spin-out run because I figured the time didnt matter and times werent matching up.. a few people failed to go through the finish lights after DNF'ing.

[dewittpayne]

Are Shelby GTs still in FS? I probably would have classed him there without looking at the fast track - seems like the rules makers opened FS up to some of the tuner specials to boost participation a few years ago. I can't remember if the SS / Firehawk to FS happened or not either.

Shelby GT's are listed. Mustang Shelby GT500 (2007-2013) is listed in AS. Saleen Mustangs are in BS. Roush isn't listed anywhere. The rule is that if it isn't on the stock list, it isn't stock. As I am well aware, the stock rules are extremely picky. You can't class a car by analogy with another car. The Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012-2013), for example, is specifically excluded from stock, but the other Boss 302 versions from those years are in AS.

I don't see the logic in classing a car with a supercharged 427 cubic inch engine and major body and suspension modifications in the same class as normally aspirated 302 cubic inch powered cars. It isn't a "Mustang (V8, NOC)". It started life as a Ford Mustang, but it's not a Ford as sold by normal Ford dealers and listed in the factory manuals. In fact, the VIN would likely tell you that it's a Mustang GT Deluxe. A supercharged 427 engine was not a factory option on a Mustang GT Deluxe, ever.

[steverife]

The logic is that registration can't accurately class every car based on a few words from the driver.

[jcox07]

I think the Roush car class is a question for the scca to make a ruling and put in xxxx class. It is not in any class as I just got done looking in solo cars and rules. It does not talk about the Roush car, however the point would be mute if Dewitt had not dnf'ed all his runs, he would have won and the Roush car is a new car/driver to our club and I do not think he is running for points. With that said, in the first paragraph of stock it says the car must be of 1000 cars in a single year from the factory, Roush has his own plant and builds the cars there, not at the ford plant. This is where the scca needs to address the proper class for the Roush mustang.

[01badz28]

The logic is that registration can't accurately class every car based on a few words from the driver.

/\ Yup.

If you think something is miss-classed and you can't work it out with the other competitor, the issue needs to be presented to the event chair. Registration is generally trying to get folks checked in and paid as fast as possible so they can get teched and walk the course. They aren't the final say on classing, and they have enough to do without double checking the classing.

However, thank you for bringing this to our attention. If the Roush driver comes back (and I hope he does) we will try and point him to the proper class.

[thrdeye]

Are Shelby GTs still in FS? I probably would have classed him there without looking at the fast track - seems like the rules makers opened FS up to some of the tuner specials to boost participation a few years ago. I can't remember if the SS / Firehawk to FS happened or not either.

Shelby GT's are listed. Mustang Shelby GT500 (2007-2013) is listed in AS. Saleen Mustangs are in BS. Roush isn't listed anywhere. The rule is that if it isn't on the stock list, it isn't stock. As I am well aware, the stock rules are extremely picky. You can't class a car by analogy with another car. The Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012-2013), for example, is specifically excluded from stock, but the other Boss 302 versions from those years are in AS.

I don't see the logic in classing a car with a supercharged 427 cubic inch engine and major body and suspension modifications in the same class as normally aspirated 302 cubic inch powered cars. It isn't a "Mustang (V8, NOC)". It started life as a Ford Mustang, but it's not a Ford as sold by normal Ford dealers and listed in the factory manuals. In fact, the VIN would likely tell you that it's a Mustang GT Deluxe. A supercharged 427 engine was not a factory option on a Mustang GT Deluxe, ever.

We understand. The point is, you know more about Mustangs and the overabundance of varieties that were built than most of us, I know more about Subie classing than most of us, Rife knows where all the FWD crapboxes go, and so on. Unless someone with an intimate knowledge of Mustangs was working registration, this is a tough problem to solve. So self-policing is the only way it works.

Besides that, don't let a novice beat you again and you won't have any problems. I'm really not trying to be rude, but you should have dominated based on experience.

[dewittpayne]

Northern New Jersey Region had a Roush 427R competing regularly in SM in 2009.

Besides that, don't let a novice beat you again and you won't have any problems. I'm really not trying to be rude, but you should have dominated based on experience.

As I said, I sort of tried to object when I saw the car being teched. Sure, I'm embarrassed that I DNF'd all my runs, but, unfortunately, I've done that before, Adesa last year. I'll probably do it again. The joys of getting older. If I hadn't DNF'd and won the class, I would still have raised the point here.

Here's a suggestion. Rather than have another competitor in the same class try to find the driver, and he never seemed to be around the car on the grid, have the driver find the other competitors in his class and ask if they have any objections to his classification. The drivers meeting would be a good place to do this as everybody is supposed to be there. Now that I think about it, that's where I should have raised the point. Oh, well. Hindsight, 20/20 and all that.

[Wheelman_13]

.... have the driver find the other competitors in his class and ask if they have any objections to his classification. The drivers meeting would be a good place to do this as everybody is supposed to be there. Now that I think about it, that's where I should have raised the point. Oh, well. Hindsight, 20/20 and all that.

Driver in this case probably didn't know any better, so yeah, would have still been down to you to make any noise about it, and yeah prior to the action starting would have been best.

I've done this before (ask permission of a class to run NOC in a class where the car met the spirit of the class). But you have to know the who/why and how realistic. Someone on their second event won't.

As stated, I think this will have been a good learning experience all round and we can properly class that car going forward.

[Roush427R]

Hello Everyone,

This is Danny, I was driving the Roush 427 Sunday. I seem to have caused an issue, please accept my apologizes. I am new to this sport and forum and have no real idea of what I am doing. I ran my first autocross just a couple of months ago with you guys. I asked several people and also the gentlemen at registration to determine what class I should be in, and the general census was to run the FS class. There was no one else in that class that day to possibly bring this issue up sooner. I am not running for points, just trying to have a good time and slide my car around without the law coming after me I have no problem with removing me from the FS class from the last 2 races and correct the points for DeWitt, I do not want to harm his points run this year. I am a national cross country dirt bike racer and I am well aware of points battles and dealing with racers in the wrong class.

The Roush mustang starts out as a basic Mustang GT that is modified by Roush Performance and then sold directly from Ford Dealerships, and nowhere else. So they can appear to be a factory car to most. The 2010 Roush 427R is a 4.6 motor that has a supercharger bolted on and produces 435hp, it is not a 427 cubic inch motor (I wish!), I have been asked that so many times

DeWitt, we did pass by each other several times in the staging area, but I was spending all my free time over at the track watching and learning, I would have enjoyed talking to you and getting advice on where I should be. I would have had no problem changing classes because it really didn’t matter, just out having fun. Sorry if I have caused any problems with your points run.

I have really enjoyed hanging out with all you guys and learning. You put on a great event, I live 2 miles from Pellissippi for 15 years and never even knew these autocrosses where occurring until Bradley told me about them. Hope to see you guys again soon and I will run in the STM class since Bradley has been very kind in helping me determine that.

Danny

[steverife]

Welcome. Don't worry about any class confusion and yes, STM would be a good class for you, especially if you want to run with a variety of cars/people.

[01badz28]

Hello Everyone,

This is Danny, I was driving the Roush 427 Sunday. I seem to have caused an issue, please accept my apologizes. I am new to this sport and forum and have no real idea of what I am doing. I ran my first autocross just a couple of months ago with you guys. I asked several people and also the gentlemen at registration to determine what class I should be in, and the general census was to run the FS class. There was no one else in that class that day to possibly bring this issue up sooner. I am not running for points, just trying to have a good time and slide my car around without the law coming after me I have no problem with removing me from the FS class from the last 2 races and correct the points for DeWitt, I do not want to harm his points run this year. I am a national cross country dirt bike racer and I am well aware of points battles and dealing with racers in the wrong class.

The Roush mustang starts out as a basic Mustang GT that is modified by Roush Performance and then sold directly from Ford Dealerships, and nowhere else. So they can appear to be a factory car to most. The 2010 Roush 427R is a 4.6 motor that has a supercharger bolted on and produces 435hp, it is not a 427 cubic inch motor (I wish!), I have been asked that so many times

DeWitt, we did pass by each other several times in the staging area, but I was spending all my free time over at the track watching and learning, I would have enjoyed talking to you and getting advice on where I should be. I would have had no problem changing classes because it really didn’t matter, just out having fun. Sorry if I have caused any problems with your points run.

I have really enjoyed hanging out with all you guys and learning. You put on a great event, I live 2 miles from Pellissippi for 15 years and never even knew these autocrosses where occurring until Bradley told me about them. Hope to see you guys again soon and I will run in the STM class since Bradley has been very kind in helping me determine that.

Danny

Welcome! Hope to see you run again.

[Jek]

Danny, it was good meeting you Sunday, I hate I didn't actually get to ride on any runs with you but hopefully I'll have a chance to hop in and give you some pointers next time you're at an event! Regardless, it was nice to have a dry spot to hang out in grid during the showers

Don't worry about the classing issues...it happens occasionally with unusual cars like the Roush, or owners that can't really tell us what mods they've done. Normally anyone at their first few events is so far behind in terms of learning that the car doesn't even matter. Dewitt is certainly capable of whupping a new driver on a good day, he just had a bad day compounded by the bad weather (3 runs). It also doesn't matter because Dewitt doesn't really have any competition for FS season points yet, so he's basically got it made...someone would have to run every single remaining event and beat him every time to get the points needed to pass him. I'm trying to convince him that as soon as he gets his 6 events in FS to qualify for seasonal FS champ, he should go tire class so he can actually have competition and improve I'm thinking of doing the same thing after the next event in STU, even though that will mean going to Tire BSP with a car that isn't prepped to BSP levels. Classes are a bit weird sometimes, especially at the local level heh.

[Roush427R]

It was good meeting you to David, and thanks for offering to ride along to help me find the spot I was DNFing at, too bad the rain changed our plans! I did talk with Bradley and we drew out the course at the location one of the guys working station #3 said he was calling the DNF at on me, once we made the transistion from the upper lot to the lower and went thru the gate where the cones were pointing inwards towards each other, the first cone to the left had a pointer cone saying to stay to the right of that cone, then there was a gap before the next 3 cones that I thought was the begining of the salom, since these 3 salom cones had a consisent gap between them, I thought I was allowed to go to either side of the first cone, my mistake was not realizing the actual first cone was the one with the pointer to the right after the gate, it had a larger gap between it and the 2nd to 4th cones, I somehow missed the novice class walk thru, right after the riders meeting we all went straight to our work stations, I have lots to learn and looking forward to it thanks again for the willingness to allow a newbie novice scare the crap out of you in the RAIN!!!