I strongly suggest that anyone who designs courses should read Solo Course Design 2009 presented by Houston Region SCCA ( http://houscca.com/solo/courses/Course_Design_4-1.pdf ) It makes my points far better than I have in this thread.
For example, from page 13, Judging your success (continued)
• Track the number of DNFs for other than mechanical failure
• The goal is zero:
• acceptable is 1 in 20 on the first run, 1 in 100 thereafter
• Number and frequency of pylons hit
• The goal is zero
• Acceptable is 1 car in 10 hitting any; no more than 3 for any one car
That would have been 3 DNF's instead of 17 in first runs. Obviously a lot more than 1 in 100 thereafter.
At least 15 out of 56 cars hit cones on their first run. I say at least because it's likely that some of the 17 cars that DNF'd on the first run also hit cones but it wasn't recorded.
from page 69, Design Goals
• It is easy to find
• The general route makes sense
• It can be walked the first time without a course map by an experienced driver
• It can even be driven by experienced drivers without a walk-through
The probability that this course could have been walked or driven the first time without any other information than the placement of the cones on the pavement is less than 50%. The upper part of the course had at least two paths that made sense, or at least they did to me because I took them both.
It was hard to drive right, though. But that was more because it was confusing than it was challenging.
So what is the answer?
I don't know if you noticed, but PSTCC isn't the best piece of pavement for autocross. Things aren't ideal. We make the best of it. Every person in the club that has ever had hand in course design has worked hard to create courses that are decent length, challenging, fast, and fun. We could do a simple straight forward one lapper with 2 or 3 turns up top and the same on the bottom connected by a long straight, but it would be about 20 seconds. I don't think that is what the bulk of membership wants.
Yep.I say lets have DeWitt get there at 630 am the next Pilli event.. Ill personally drive the van where ever he points me and he shall design the next course at ETR Pilli event.
All in favor.. say yea.
YEA!
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
ETR Pro Class Champion-2002-03-10-11-12-13-14-15
BMW/CCA D-Mod National Road Racing Champion-2011
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2004
Pro-Solo Prepared National Champ-2005
2016 Dodge Challenger SRT 6.4L CAM-C
I would say yes as long as I get to walk to course before we mark the cones! I remember in the old days we had a guy that complained about courses so much that we had him do a course and his first run on his course he pulled a DNF. Look course designs are not easy and its funny because people that drive big cars always seem to set-up little courses, but gone are the days of idea that we don't need a course that has the fun factor.
I love our courses because we do the best we can with what we have. I would love to see us get a nice flat site that has no poles or islands, but that isn't in the cards right now.
rocracing2004 wrote:I love our courses because we do the best we can with what we have. I would love to see us get a nice flat site that has no poles or islands, but that isn't in the cards right now.
RC
+1 Robert...
I wasn't at this event, but I read the threads, and frankly my eyes are near bleeding reading this one. Our course designers do the best with what they have to work with.
To the member who started this thread...
ETR has some DEEP talent, and most have posted up on this subject. Take their advice and you will prosper.
John Brown wrote:I think Iv DNF'd 2 times in the last 10 years.. both this year,and both after a night of drinking whipped vodka. Now I got to thinkin bout this and it proves to me one thing.
...stick to cold beers.
LOL!!
Dave Rogers
2006 Porsche Cayman S #13
2011 Porsche Cayman S #13
2016 Mustang GT #3
2018 BMW 340i X-drive #3
2022 Mustang Mach 1 #3
I remember in the old days we had a guy that complained about courses so much that we had him do a course and his first run on his course he pulled a DNF. Look course designs are not easy and its funny because people that drive big cars always seem to set-up little courses, but gone are the days of idea that we don't need a course that has the fun factor.
