Regional #5 Administrative

[steverife]

Yeah. I don't know the answer. I want everyone to know the course and post times and have fun.

To get the most out of our lots and events, the courses are going to overlap and the visuals may be tricky. Sometimes you won't get as many course walks as you want. Sometimes you may run last. Mid day course walks aren't a viable option at a lot of locals. You have to learn to work around these things.

Walk the course a lot. Walk it in sections. Walk it with people. Walk it by yourself. Draw a map. Write out notes. Use your gadgets. Do the novice course walk. Ask for help. Have people watch you. Have people ride with you. Ride with other people. Watch other people. If you can watch your video between runs and can't find a DNF, have someone else watch it and tell you.

If none of that helps, try other things, whatever those things may be.

[ke0ki2k]

Yeah. I don't know the answer. I want everyone to know the course and post times and have fun.

To get the most out of our lots and events, the courses are going to overlap and the visuals may be tricky. Sometimes you won't get as many course walks as you want. Sometimes you may run last. Mid day course walks aren't a viable option at a lot of locals. You have to learn to work around these things.

Walk the course a lot. Walk it in sections. Walk it with people. Walk it by yourself. Draw a map. Write out notes. Use your gadgets. Do the novice course walk. Ask for help. Have people watch you. Have people ride with you. Ride with other people. Watch other people. If you can watch your video between runs and can't find a DNF, have someone else watch it and tell you.

If none of that helps, try other things, whatever those things may be.

^ this. nuff said. LOCK ALL TEH THREADDSSS! LOCK THEM!

[Mark McCrary]

I still personally believe that just walking to course with no electronic for a novice works best. You need 100% focus on the course. The more time out looking at the course the better prepared you will be. Once you get the course down you can start working on what you can do faster. I have been out of autocross for 4 years and and once it clicks its like riding a bike. It will not hapoen over night but I can promise if you just walk the course and just relax and do not over think about it but get it good in your mind it will click. Just try no electronics what so ever and just walk the course focus on where to go and if you question something go back to where you where are re-walk, it should help. If it doesn't work then go back to what works but give it a try.

[steverife]

To clarify, when I posted "try other things", I meant other ways to read courses, not other hobbies in place of autocross.

I think you'll find a lot of people here will help you with this stuff however they can, but don't expect the format of the events to change. The bulk of people find a routine that works within a few events.

...and for what it is worth, I've autocrossed for a decade now, I've got a bunch of top 3 PAX's with ETR and other regions, a couple of trophies at national events, etc, etc.... and I had 2 true DNF's at ETR events last season. It was a result of lack of focus on my part.

[01badz28]

Honestly, I've learned a thing or two from this thread, so I'm glad it came up. Walking the course and seeing how one element flows into another is probably the hardest element of autocross for me to deal with.

[thrdeye]

Another point I would make is that I would bet you JB, Mark, Robert, etc could go back and draw Nationals course maps from throughout the years. I still remember parts of the ones from 2007....and last years are still completely in my brain. There's no GPS that can make that happen.

You don't learn a course by learning every cone. You learn a course by figuring out the handful that matter and go from there. The rest works itself out. At the typical PSCC course, there are probably about 6-10 key cones since there are so many sweepers.

For example, at the school....the half moon sweeper didn't really matter. Yeah, you could hose yourself if you added too much distance, BUT if you got the slalom exit correct and hit the entrance to next element - the "L" (the 90 degree thing) - correctly, then there was only one way to drive the sweeper. That's part of the course that you don't even have to think about.

On any given course, only a small percentage of the cones matter.

[rocracing2004]

Hey I have been busy this week so I haven't had time to go over this yet. Mark and John both have great points. Mark was correct when we first started running together he would just look at a turn and look at it and keep looking at it trying to see when he could get on the gas. When you do this you miss the big thing and that is what is speed in the car going to force you to do? I drive by the seat on my pants and people have to be ready for change because you may have a good plan when walking the course but when it comes down to it you may have to change that plan due to the amount of grip that the surface has.

Ok John is correct and its true if you cannot drive the course in your head then you don't know the course. The one thing I do and it has helped me a lot over the years is while I am driving the course in my head and turning my body as the car turns if my mind stops for one second then I go walk the area right before that because something is not clear in that area. This technique will serve you well if you just apply it. I would also try to look a head when doing this so you know the cones you need to be looking for and if you can't see then next cone in a section then you need to stop go walk that area.

It may sound simple but its not just like autcrossing its simple once you get it. The course changes everytime so you have to keep getting it and that is what is hard and its what keeps us doing it.

I know I have worked with students in the past that just cannot see courses in their minds so I can see what he is saying. I also have had students that cannot seem to look a head either, but these are the two biggest keys to our sport so either you keep trying or just keep recording the course as you walk it.

We all don't look a head enough or read the course just right but we keep trying. I am a true believer that I have never had a perfect run nor have a seen one because you can always inprove so just keep trying to inprove your skills and this is a inporant one to master.

Robert

[dewittpayne]

Final comment.

I strongly suggest that anyone who designs courses should read Solo Course Design 2009 presented by Houston Region SCCA ( http://houscca.com/solo/courses/Course_Design_4-1.pdf ) It makes my points far better than I have in this thread.

For example, from page 13, Judging your success (continued)

• Track the number of DNFs for other than mechanical failure
• The goal is zero:
• acceptable is 1 in 20 on the first run, 1 in 100 thereafter
• Number and frequency of pylons hit
• The goal is zero
• Acceptable is 1 car in 10 hitting any; no more than 3 for any one car

That would have been 3 DNF's instead of 17 in first runs. Obviously a lot more than 1 in 100 thereafter.

At least 15 out of 56 cars hit cones on their first run. I say at least because it's likely that some of the 17 cars that DNF'd on the first run also hit cones but it wasn't recorded.

from page 69, Design Goals

• It is easy to find
• The general route makes sense
• It can be walked the first time without a course map by an experienced driver
• It can even be driven by experienced drivers without a walk-through

The probability that this course could have been walked or driven the first time without any other information than the placement of the cones on the pavement is less than 50%. The upper part of the course had at least two paths that made sense, or at least they did to me because I took them both.

It was hard to drive right, though. But that was more because it was confusing than it was challenging.

[thrdeye]

Dewitt I think you should design the next course at pelli. No shit.

Go for it. The last few we have e had there are the best ever.

ANY course that crosses over itself is going to be a bit confusing, but it's not like we haven't had a crossover there before. Only on the last 100 courses or so.

My final comment: if you continue to blame the course you will NEVER improve.

sent from typotalk

[flier129]

The winner last event walked the course once

[ke0ki2k]

The winner last event walked the course once

course was pretty much a repeat of #4.. I walked the left-hander at the bottom of the hill twice..

[integra55]

• Track the number of DNFs for other than mechanical failure
• The goal is zero:
• acceptable is 1 in 20 on the first run, 1 in 100 thereafter
• Number and frequency of pylons hit
• The goal is zero
• Acceptable is 1 car in 10 hitting any; no more than 3 for any one car

from page 69, Design Goals

• It is easy to find
• The general route makes sense
• It can be walked the first time without a course map by an experienced driver
• It can even be driven by experienced drivers without a walk-through

first red highlight ... very commendable goal .... not very reasonable, but very commendable ... at the last event that I attended (that would be #2) I DNF'ed twice ( I think) both had nothing to do with the course design ... well maybe ... I was actually going too fast to make the turn ... driver error, not course design

their goal of zero DNF's doesn't seem to take into consideration driver error

the second red highlight while highly commendable again is ludicrous ... all you have to do is watch JB run ... he scatters cones as though they're bread crumbs thrown out for the geese .... even more so watch someone like Dave O'Malley, I've seen him take out most of the cones around a course (yeah I'm exaggerating, but not so much)

one theory is that if you don't hit some cones on some of your runs, you aren't trying hard enough

and the last red highlight is the most ludicrous of all.... yeah a top driver could probably drive a course without pre-walking ... but not at any kind of speed

I've given "good" drivers a ride on a course that they hadn't walked the course ... they then did quite well ... but the ride along was pretty much the same thing as a course walk ... but they wouldn't have had a chance if they had tried to do the course blind

[CABoegemann]

Dewitt I think you should design the next course at pelli. No shit.


sent from typotalk

[eunos735]

If you go to an event. And you DNF EVERY single run. It's on you. After you DNFed the first time you should have asked to have someone who knows what they are doing to ride with you. After you DNFed the 2nd time you should have BEGGED someone to ride with you AND for you to ride with someone else. And if on your last run you didn't go out on course with the goal of doing NOTHING but getting a time in the books and driving as slowly as possible to do just that, then you really can't be helped.

[steverife]

The irony of the course design book is that I thought Roger Johnson's national course last year was terrible visually.... probably the hardest to see of any national event course I've driven.