2016 Nationals

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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

STS is pending an engine tear down.

I think the others were resolved.
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by ConeEater »

jcox07 wrote:We had the best paddock of anyone at nats, we always had others stopping by rowdy row at the ETR hot spot. Looking forward to next year as JB is right we had a blast and ate better than anyone at nationals.
Grrrr.... Making me regret it even more.

The planning (and saving) for next year starts now.
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by JohnSmith »

steverife wrote:STS is pending an engine tear down.

I think the others were resolved.
What is the suspected infraction?
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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

Speaking of eating...

I know that ETR doesn't necessarily leave the site much, but Jed and I stumbled across a great restaurant (that Eric already knew about). SchillingBridge Cork and Tap House. It is kind of hidden in an office complex off Purple Heart Highway.
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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

JohnSmith wrote:
steverife wrote:STS is pending an engine tear down.

I think the others were resolved.
What is the suspected infraction?
I've only gotten one side of the story, but the CRX that is showing in 5th was protested for a decked block and unsportsmanlike conduct.

The stock D16A6's have a number stamping just above the water pump mount. The service blocks you buy from Honda have no stamping, but look virgin. The FSM is pretty vague on all of this, but If you do a resurfacing, the number gets altered or goes away. The original gasket is composite, so it isn't uncommon to have to have to clean up that area a bit. The car in question apparently had an engine with a ghosting of the number at Blytheville last month. It showed up at nationals with the same engine, suddenly with a stamping (which brought about the unsportsmanlike protest).

Again, I only got one side of the story and I had no clue about any of this while I was at the event.
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by jcox07 »

With the way the Hondas are taking over STS, I would bet that more than one has or is doing the same thing or something along those lines. You don't go from a class with a mix of Hondas and miatas going for the wins to all of a sudden just the Hondas dominating the class and the first Miata was 12th at nats I believe and Ben won a couple pros this year. These cars are suppose to be limited to what you can do, but watching how much faster the Hondas are than the Miata is mind boggling. In a class that has been around a while and all of a sudden the Hondas have found more power, NO WAY!
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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

I don't think that mod is any power difference. Maybe 1 horsepower tops. For the most part, I think anybody that has a resurfaced block is because they can't find an untouched one or didn't want to spend $3k for one when they were available 5 years ago.

Also, the Whitener Miata looked like the fastest straight line car in the class. I think it would have been 4th or so if everything wasn't coned.
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John Brown
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by John Brown »

Decking a block can add 3 points to your compression.. on almost any internal combustion eng. Maybe more if you have low crown pistons and can trim off .030 or more. I would think those stamped numbers are almost .025-.030 deep.
The fall back in this method is the effect it has on cam timing...not being able to use adj cam gears. However, thats an easy problem to over come also. (slots),and it takes very little. Plus the retard in cam timing gives even more low end power.. not always a negative thing.

quiet certain that will give me more than 1 hp.
I have first hand experience here,building the MR2 engines.

Almost all engines specs have a "Deck Height" dimension... evidently Honda does not.
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MikeKelly
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by MikeKelly »

John Brown wrote:Decking a block can add 3 points to your compression.. on almost any internal combustion eng. Maybe more if you have low crown pistons and can trim off .030 or more. I would think those stamped numbers are almost .025-.030 deep.
It has a lot to do with effective chamber size / piston dome (and gets real tricky with a stroker crank), but I can tell you that .020" (deck height, gasket thickness, whatever) = .5 on my compression ratio.

Here is a handy calculator: https://www.summitracing.com/popup/calc ... calculator


I sincerely doubt that Honda lacks a deck height spec...
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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

I think you can take like almost nothing off and lose that stamping. Mineral spirits and a cloth will alter how it looks.
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MikeKelly
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by MikeKelly »

On most stuff the head is the place to be cutting (first).

Pretty tough to measure accurately in a tear down too - given production tolerances.
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by MARKP »

I can't speak for the 88 and up Hondas but I can tell you for a fact that the earlier ones did not have a deck height spec. Pretty sure I still have a service manual for an 86.

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steverife
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by steverife »

Same for 88+. No allowances for resurfacing, etc.... though the replacement head gasket is thicker.
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Gen52SS
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by Gen52SS »

If I can remember back in my Honda days a .020 was the limit on older civic heads shaving any more would cause us to replace the head. I guess one could but then timing and or lower end mods would be needed. If this car was that fast I think more then a shaved head was involved here.
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Re: 2016 Nationals

Post by dewittpayne »

I don't see anything in the rules that would allow shaving either the head or the block. Only overboring to 0.020" or overboring and sleeving are allowed block modifications.
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