More STR details...

[steverife]

I really think the Miatas, both old and new, will be good STR cars.

[gbwrx]

I really think the Miatas, both old and new, will be good STR cars.

They do good basically in any class.

[Brian]

So why no ST classes? I'd prefer to run with others on street tires and suspension/engine/exhaust bolt-ons versus a SP class where R's and more $$$ is thrown around.

Umm wrong, ST is the class that we drive in to the event on street tires and show people on Comps that we still kick ass. I have seen RC tires to be a great band-aid

Nashville sort of has what you guys are suggesting with their street tire PAX class - stock class cars on street tires but they all run together using their respective stock PAX. As a result, they basically have zero participation in the ST classes unless someone from another region shows up. It also sucked the life out of their regular stock classes outside of pro. It's very popular but it's also (mostly) very slow. My point was there really would not be a need for stock on street tires and "almost stock" on street tires.

[TennTechMan]

My point was there really would not be a need for stock on street tires and "almost stock" on street tires.

My ST car is almost stock, but I'm not sure I would consider ST generally "almost stock". There's really quite a bit that can be done for ST. We've got a few guys in our region that have put a lot of time and money into their ST/* cars.

[Oberstwill]

This is an interesting debate, but as the only true "stock car" driver I have noticed that soem stock cars have many more legal parts available than others which is almost unfair to those who own cars with no available stock parts which might be better available. The only recourse for those people is financing the more expensive rubber to try and make up for lack of available parts which might help and keep you in a stock class.

Knowing this I just go out and try to beat any other driver and I dont care what class he or she is in. I find the thrill of just beating newer, more powerful cars satisfying because it tells me that I tried to drive the crap out of my car ( but when it is crap, it takes alot of driving to purge it all out).

There will always be whiners and winners and not everyone can claim both catagories at once. if another class will help the club grow maybe, then that is a good thing and who knows, maybe extending an event discoutn to soem of the local clubs might help bring in more members also. That way soem of the "tuner types" running around here might actually bring their cars otu and try their skills in a controlled environment vs on Kingston pike where most of them play light to light.

[steverife]

My point was there really would not be a need for stock on street tires and "almost stock" on street tires.

My ST car is almost stock, but I'm not sure I would consider ST generally "almost stock". There's really quite a bit that can be done for ST. We've got a few guys in our region that have put a lot of time and money into their ST/* cars.

I agree.

I just don't think stock class would be very fun on OEM stuff...and I don't think very many of the 400 people that ran stock class at Kansas would be very excited to pull their aftermarket shocks to spend money to go slower and have less fun.

I think a local street tire index would be popular, but I also agree with Brian's point. TR pretty much has novice, tire, and pro.

[PushinTheLimit]

Maybe for next year, we can just expand the STM class to make it the Tire class like trscca. It works for them and I think we would have good participation in it as well. I don't think the guys that we thought would try the STM class will really do it consistently. That means the newbie's will have to deal with PAX, but its supposed to be the equalizer for classes anyways so it would be worth a shot to try I think.

The ST guys may not like that, but they have quite a few that are prepped well for ST, STS so I don't think it would affect them too much. JMO

[Wheelman_13]

This is an interesting debate, but as the only true "stock car" driver I have noticed that soem stock cars have many more legal parts available than others which is almost unfair to those who own cars with no available stock parts which might be better available. The only recourse for those people is financing the more expensive rubber to try and make up for lack of available parts which might help and keep you in a stock class.

Knowing this I just go out and try to beat any other driver and I dont care what class he or she is in. I find the thrill of just beating newer, more powerful cars satisfying because it tells me that I tried to drive the crap out of my car ( but when it is crap, it takes alot of driving to purge it all out).

There will always be whiners and winners and not everyone can claim both catagories at once. if another class will help the club grow maybe, then that is a good thing and who knows, maybe extending an event discoutn to soem of the local clubs might help bring in more members also. That way soem of the "tuner types" running around here might actually bring their cars otu and try their skills in a controlled environment vs on Kingston pike where most of them play light to light.

We could always put fliers out for the "Parking Lot Touge" and see how many hondas show up

[/import tuner stereotyping]

[Budman]

My point was there really would not be a need for stock on street tires and "almost stock" on street tires.

My ST car is almost stock, but I'm not sure I would consider ST generally "almost stock". There's really quite a bit that can be done for ST. We've got a few guys in our region that have put a lot of time and money into their ST/* cars.

I agree.

I just don't think stock class would be very fun on OEM stuff...and I don't think very many of the 400 people that ran stock class at Kansas would be very excited to pull their aftermarket shocks to spend money to go slower and have less fun.

I agree it wouldn't be as much fun, but it would still be a lot of fun for the dollar. The point is that the stock class would be entry level and keep the costs down. Those that wanted a bigger thrill and want to spend the money can move up into the higher prepped classes and those that don't or can't still have a place to play without spending a lot of $$$ and still feel like they have a chance to be competitive.

[steverife]

I agree it wouldn't be as much fun, but it would still be a lot of fun for the dollar. The point is that the stock class would be entry level and keep the costs down. Those that wanted a bigger thrill and want to spend the money can move up into the higher prepped classes and those that don't or can't still have a place to play without spending a lot of $$$ and still feel like they have a chance to be competitive.

I guess that's where we differ. I don't see stock as entry level or see any reason that it should be...

[John Brown]

ok..Im just gonna chime in one more time here,and Im gonna leave this dead horse for dead.. lol

Is anyone reading these post? It does not matter what you make a class of..rules or whatever.. somebody is gonna take the time/MONEY to take the available parameters to beat the shit out of every body else in the class...

Like Pilson mentioned early on in this thread.. they will force you to buy tires every event..spin em,shave em..bla bla bla.. and to buy 10 sets of shocks,valve springs,strut springs,and you pick out the best of the run.

Ask any miata stock class driver at the nationals how many camber/castor washers he has... Iv measured a thousand of them,to get the thickest ones... this will be true of any rules you want to play with... AND..if by chance a new class is started and it seems cheap in the beginning...give it a year.. a past Nat Champ will VIOLATE that class like a duck on a June bug!! lol

Maybe I just dont see the point.... BUT please!! dont try to enlighten me... Im happy playin by the rules and classes that lie before me.....

[Wheelman_13]

These discussions are always well meaning, but it ends up a bit like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWQoK506xkQ

Friendly, but a bit absurd at times

Maximizing a car within the scope of rules is a challenge. $700/year for r-comps is an acceptable cost/benefit exchange for the extra fun I have being able to actually compare myself (poorly so far) to the similarly equipped "known-fast" guys.

[Dstan]

These discussions are always well meaning, but it ends up a bit like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWQoK506xkQ

Friendly, but a bit absurd at times

Maximizing a car within the scope of rules is a challenge. $700/year for r-comps is an acceptable cost/benefit exchange for the extra fun I have being able to actually compare myself (poorly so far) to the similarly equipped "known-fast" guys.

I think this one hits on it well too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

[CMikeR]

Maximizing a car within the scope of rules is a challenge. $700/year for r-comps is an acceptable cost/benefit exchange for the extra fun I have being able to actually compare myself (poorly so far) to the similarly equipped "known-fast" guys.[/quote]


I think that maximizing your car within the rules is indeed the challenge. The Smoky Yunnick school of thought--what do the rules not say--is alive and well. The rule set that we have been given is a product of evolution and is therefore quite watertight. everyone has to find their own threshold for the ole bang-for-buck quotient. Racing is only one third of the sport. Preparation is one third and of course bench racing adn rules grousing is the other third. You only have to look at the big timers to see that even here at the grass's roots, we follow an ages old formula.

[gbwrx]

I agree with Rife about the stock class. At this point there is no reason to go backwards on it and kill all of the stock classes. I don't see myself selling shocks, sway bar, and tires to go slower. I would just move to another class if they changed stock class and I assume most people running Nationally would do the same thing. But, then again the real "stock" stock class may be the new poo.