Subaru Tuning at Topspeed (Cobb Stage 2)

[disneyd]

FWIW, I went by FasTech today and did their $85 three pull dyno run. Figured I'd see where I was at before doing anything else. I was mostly wanting to make sure the car was healthy.

They log boost, air-fuel ratio, and intake air temp during the runs. I dealt with Mark mostly and they did a good job. I'll definitely take the Miata back there soon to see what it is actually putting down. Oh, and signing a waiver was never mentioned... wonder if that is just for dyno days?

[SilverMaxima]

So what are your numbers and boost...?

Interesting on the waiver... We had to sign one for or dyno day awhile back.

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[disneyd]

The average of the 3 runs was 290hp/310tq at 17.5 psi (peak). I was surprised as I was only expecting to see around 275hp or so. This was running a 91 octane map (was using 93 octane fuel of course). AFR's looked good.

What's the drivetrain loss on these cars? 20% or more?

[SilverMaxima]

The average of the 3 runs was 290hp/310tq at 17.5 psi (peak). I was surprised as I was only expecting to see around 275hp or so. This was running a 91 octane map (was using 93 octane fuel of course). AFR's looked good.

What's the drivetrain loss on these cars? 20% or more?

Sounds about like what mine made on a hot October day way back... Except my torque was neutered. 286/283 IIRC. Third gear pull, I think, as well.



I've never actually seen concrete #s for drivetrain loss on these cars. I know from speaking with TopSpeed that the typical Cobb Stage 2 STI puts around 285-290 WHP on their Dyno Dymanics and I think a stock STI is 220ish WHP. That's ~26.7% loss. After a Stage 2 protune, they're around 310. Not sure what similar #s would be on a DynoJet or Mustang Dyno. I've seen numerous threads pop up on NASIOC and IWSTI, but the answer always ranges from a guess to not possible.

[Austin Lanz]

Hopefully this doesn't sound stupid....but why are there different staged tunes? Do they sell like parts packages in these stages to correspond with the tune stage number? Like on the Evo, I just put some cams in it so I logged the idle and 3rd Gear WOT run and emailed them to AMS PERFORMANCE. Then they read it and send me a new map with the appropriate changes. Do most people do Subaru's differently than that?

[SilverMaxima]

Hopefully this doesn't sound stupid....but why are there different staged tunes? Do they sell like parts packages in these stages to correspond with the tune stage number? Like on the Evo, I just put some cams in it so I logged the idle and 3rd Gear WOT run and emailed them to AMS PERFORMANCE. Then they read it and send me a new map with the appropriate changes. Do most people do Subaru's differently than that?

It's marketing some company started years ago... The "official" stages are 1 and 2. Stage 1 is a stock car, maybe an aftermarket intake (useless, as stock is a CAI of sorts, anyway). Stage 2 just adds a downpipe (can use the stock catback) with an appropriate tune. From there, you can go "Stage 2+," adding headers, larger crosspipe, uppipe, etc. "Stage 3" is basically a turbo upgrade. From there it gets fuzzy.

I can't say for sure how most people get their Subies tuned, but I know people do self-tunes using open source, and several companies and individuals offer e-tunes via e-mail, and of course you can go to TopSpeed or Forged Performance and get a dyno tune. Cobb, Perrin, and maybe a few others offer their own off-the-shelf maps. Cobb's Stage 2 map is probably the most widely used when people install a downpipe. I've been running Cobb's OTS Stage 2 map since 5k miles (previous owner, but I have updated the map as Cobb released revisions). I really should (have) spring for a protune, new motor issue aside.

[Austin Lanz]

So you guys have 300whp with an exhaust, an intake, and a tune? Wow. I doubt my car is at 300whp and I've got 272 Cams, Full TBE exhuast, Buschur Intake, 800cc injectors, Walbro 255 pump, and the Flash tune.

[SilverMaxima]

So you guys have 300whp with an exhaust, an intake, and a tune? Wow. I doubt my car is at 300whp and I've got 272 Cams, Full TBE exhuast, Buschur Intake, 800cc injectors, Walbro 255 pump, and the Flash tune.

Wow... I'd think your Evo would put down more than that on a dyno. Ever put it on one? I'd also bet a dyno tune would net you higher #s over an etune.

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[disneyd]

Hopefully this doesn't sound stupid....but why are there different staged tunes? Do they sell like parts packages in these stages to correspond with the tune stage number? Like on the Evo, I just put some cams in it so I logged the idle and 3rd Gear WOT run and emailed them to AMS PERFORMANCE. Then they read it and send me a new map with the appropriate changes. Do most people do Subaru's differently than that?

Isn't it a little risky to run a modded car like that WOT with no extra fuel? One run can hole a piston if you are lean enough.

[Austin Lanz]

Hey Dave,

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me. I have upgraded injectors (560cc stock to now 800cc FIC's) as well as an upgraded Fuel pump. I have the gauge that monitors A/F ratio as well, so I keep an eye on that for the first run before I get a "base" tune on the new parts. I upgraded the air intake on the car like mid-ax season and was having some trouble with the car running smoothly because it wasn't able to get enough fuel to keep up anymore, but the knock sensor seemed to kick in before the RPM's could rise above 5k RPM.

[Austin Lanz]

So you guys have 300whp with an exhaust, an intake, and a tune? Wow. I doubt my car is at 300whp and I've got 272 Cams, Full TBE exhuast, Buschur Intake, 800cc injectors, Walbro 255 pump, and the Flash tune.

Wow... I'd think your Evo would put down more than that on a dyno. Ever put it on one? I'd also bet a dyno tune would net you higher #s over an etune.

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I have not ever had it on a dyno, no. It was put on a Mustang dyno when it was purchased by the prvious owner in 2003 and it made 228whp and 246wtq but it has not been on one since then.

[rocket71]

I am headed down to Top Speed next Tuesday to get the S2000 tuned. They were the only place that I didn't have to bring my own laptop and software. Plus, their pricing is pretty competitive.

[onebadbugeye]

Well I will throw in my 2 cents since we are talking subies. I have had a number of different tunes on my car over the years. Everything from Cobb OTS stage 2 tune to a CamTuning tune, many open source tunes and currently have my 03 WRX pro tuned by Motion LabTuning out of Charlotte NC. The tune from Motion Lab has been far superior to any of the other tunes that have been on the car before. It has never knocked at all and for my car to be making over 300 whp with 165k miles that's pretty good.

The charge a flat rate to tune the car so if it takes him all day to make you happy you still only pay the flat rate. I had talked to all kinds of tuners ie top speed, forged, and many other before deciding on Motion Lab and I picked them due to ther great customs service and outstanding recoded for great tunes.

[thrdeye]

Hey Dave,

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me. I have upgraded injectors (560cc stock to now 800cc FIC's) as well as an upgraded Fuel pump. I have the gauge that monitors A/F ratio as well, so I keep an eye on that for the first run before I get a "base" tune on the new parts. I upgraded the air intake on the car like mid-ax season and was having some trouble with the car running smoothly because it wasn't able to get enough fuel to keep up anymore, but the knock sensor seemed to kick in before the RPM's could rise above 5k RPM.

This doesn't sound that good. be careful.

[Austin Lanz]

It only did that for one day, I had the fuel system upgraded right after that. It runs good now. I'll show you, we can go for a ride at the banquet. lol