From SCCA National - No Drones

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thrdeye
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From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by thrdeye »

I have already had some questions from my Deputies and would like to add some information. The reason behind the new policy is because our insurer has advised SCCA that we are not covered for liability associated with drones at our events. While the rule I have stipulated for new event Supps applies broadly, it is meant to keep participants, officials and spectators from using recreational drones. I could have worded an exception for commercial drones but that would have meant a long list of requirements that could change as the FAA and local authorities adapt to the issue of drones.

If a Region wants to hire a commercial drone operator to video the event we can certainly make an exception - but we will need to work with SCCA to be sure that the company is FAA certified. Plus they need to have $10 Million in primary liability insurance and must name SCCA and all of our normal co-insured parties as "additional insured" (e.g., the track and subcontractors). Furthermore, that policy must specifically state damages resulting from the use of the drone is covered. As you can tell, that is a bunch of detail that we didn't need to add in our Supps.

It will also be a tricky situation enforcing the new policy if spectators are using a drone. Our primary concern is stopping and overflight of t,he track and usually corner workers will spot the device. But determining which person is operating a drone is not so easy. I believe protecting our drivers and workers during an event will be a cooperative effort with track management and their security resources.

I hope that helps explain the situation further - and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. By the way, I only speak to Club Racing matters in the Southeast, but those of you hosting Solo, Road Rally, Time Trails, and Hill Climbs might want to consider how this matter impacts those events as well.

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Paul Gauzens
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You know that we hate being a "buzzkill," but this recently came down from the insurance folks regarding drones... and yes, if it flies an no one is in it, it's a drone. (ruling on home built manned aircraft, forthcoming):

Discussions with our Broker (Willis) and K&K have yielded the following position on the use of drones at SCCA events.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the US Justice Department are still working on regulations to govern the commercial and private use of unmanned aircraft systems (drones).

Consequently, our insurance carrier states we have no liability coverage under our existing general liability policy for the operation of any owned aircraft / drone – this applies even if SCCA purchases a drone.

Commercial UAS owners – must have proof of FAA certification and liability insurance naming SCCA and our normal list of additional insured. Since the standard commercial general liability policy excludes the operation of aircraft, the policy must specifically state it includes the use of UASs. The policy needs to have $10M of primary coverage.

Recreational UAS – Should be prohibited. The SCCA should not allow anyone (spectator, participant, official) to use a drone at an event unless they have provided us a copy of the FAA certification and proof of insurance (COI), with the coverage described above, and have a valid reason to be using the UAS.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by TedV »

What about tethered balloons? Blimps, or Dirigibles?
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by RxCritical »

I think dirigibles are ok as they have a internal structure.
What about remote control Helicopters? With cameras? They have not been normally classified as a drone.
Or maybe model rockets with built in cameras?
:pirate:

Seriously how do they think we could control spectators using a "drone"?
Especially if they are on private property or say a Pellissippi parking lot that is not part of our event.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by steverife »

This is a new hot topic in sports. ESPN had a Outside the Lines special on football teams using drones to film practice and the legalities regarding privacy and safety. A helicopter with a camera would fall under their definition.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by 01badz28 »

RxCritical wrote:I think dirigibles are ok as they have a internal structure.
What about remote control Helicopters? With cameras? They have not been normally classified as a drone.
Or maybe model rockets with built in cameras?
:pirate:

Seriously how do they think we could control spectators using a "drone"?
Especially if they are on private property or say a Pellissippi parking lot that is not part of our event.
I've got a 590a1. Can I be the chief of drones? :D
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thrdeye
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by thrdeye »

steverife wrote:This is a new hot topic in sports. ESPN had a Outside the Lines special on football teams using drones to film practice and the legalities regarding privacy and safety. A helicopter with a camera would fall under their definition.
Filming your own practice or other teams practice? Or some random dude filming practice?
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by steverife »

Filming your own practice.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by RxCritical »

01badz28 wrote:
RxCritical wrote:I think dirigibles are ok as they have a internal structure.
What about remote control Helicopters? With cameras? They have not been normally classified as a drone.
Or maybe model rockets with built in cameras?
:pirate:

Seriously how do they think we could control spectators using a "drone"?
Especially if they are on private property or say a Pellissippi parking lot that is not part of our event.
I've got a 590a1. Can I be the chief of drones? :D

Depends on whether your drone has "Anti-Drone capability" We could use your drone to control our airspace and deny unauthorized drone access.

:mrgreen:
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by scottgib »

Remote control helicopter is a drone.
One of Killboy's recent photos: https://www.facebook.com/211220253139/p ... 40/?type=1

Here is Killboy's latest helicopter setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 4X-Xq7PxWY
Very impressive from an engineering point of view.

On his website he has some fantastic views of events (not ours).

I have a hard time understanding how we can control this with the current laws. Comment lawyers? I recently read an article that implied that some new laws/regulations are needed now that anyone can do this.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by jcox07 »

Shoulder fired drone seeking missiles will be what we need to order to keep them drones out of etr's air space.....I think the national scca office has them on sale......
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01badz28
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by 01badz28 »

scottgib wrote:I have a hard time understanding how we can control this with the current laws. Comment lawyers? I recently read an article that implied that some new laws/regulations are needed now that anyone can do this.
The short answer is we are putting on an event on public property. We can ask anyone to leave for any reason. This falls in the same category as doing burnouts, driving too fast off course, or generally behaving like an as*hole. If we see someone operating a drone, we politely tell them its not allowed by the event rules and they need to shut it down. Next step is to call the LEOs and have them deal with the person if they want to argue.

The long answer is drones are a huge gray area - the law has not caught up with them. I'm not an aviation specialist, so the following is based on largely what I've heard / read in the news, and is not intended to be legal advice.

My understanding is that non-commercial drones basically fall in the same category as RC aircraft. So long as they aren't a hazard to aircraft, they don't really fall under FAA regulations and no one really cares about them.

On the other hand, commercially operated drones (anything used for profit, like for example Killboy) are generally banned from operation in the United States, or are otherwise regulated like any other aircraft.

Honestly, this seems like a sensible (not something the SCCA is always known for) policy. We are talking about small aircraft that could cause serious injury to property or persons if they fail and fall to the ground. There isn't any kind of safety process these things have to meet. They may have all kinds of backups and failsafes, or they may be assembled with duct tape and bailing wire. Too many unknowns and liability IMHO.
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scottgib
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by scottgib »

Many (such as Killboy's) could be operated well off the property and there is no way other than with some expensive electronic gear to locate them.

One could park a drone and have it wake up some time later, fly a preset course, fly to a landing site, land, and shut off. Scary huh ? Technology has presented us a new challenge, and I am not talking about motor sports.

If I were in law enforcement, I would want something like Killboy's helo. Admissible evidence in court? Need a warrant?
Last edited by scottgib on Tue May 27, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by 01badz28 »

scottgib wrote:Many (such as Killboy's) could be operated well off the property and there is no way other than with some expensive electronic gear to locate them.

One could park a drone and have it wake up some time later, fly a preset course, fly to a landing site, land, and shut off. Scary huh ? Technology has presented us a new challenge, and I am not talking about motor sports.
It gets real interesting about the point someone loads one full of explosives and uses it as a cruise missile.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by scottgib »

Ryan, check the edit of my previous post.
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Re: From SCCA National - No Drones

Post by 01badz28 »

scottgib wrote:Ryan, check the edit of my previous post.
The Courts are pretty clear that you have no expectation of privacy in public. So no, there would be no need of a warrant for LEOs to operate a drone for evidence gathering purposes. I don't see a difference between a drone and the stereo typical police surveillance van.

The sticky issue as of late is whether police can use FLIR cameras to basically see into a house (where you do have an expectation of privacy) - but I can't remember where those cases came down.

EDIT: In terms of your original scenario (mystery drone shows up over the course and we can't identify the operator), the best we can probably do is notify local law enforcement and then have a conversation with the operator when the pictures hit the web. I doubt the law is going to change to allow us to use MANPADS or shotguns against drones anytime soon.
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