DAX - data-derived Autocross Index

[jcox07]

I don't think your car is closer in fs to the better cars as mine is in esp. At black lake I was just a touch over 1 second behind the third place national finishing car and with Mark or Carpenter in my car with them being 1.5-3 seconds faster than me, I do think my car is capable of winning at nats with RC or Mark behind the wheel and based off of my times vs Marks I would have placed about 6-9 at nationals in esp this year if you go off of the black lake times.

[jcox07]

I don't see any GT500 in any class hardly at all, but if you talk about mustangs on tour and you ask Strano about them he will say Jadrice is strong and he has said that my car is strong as well. We will just have to wait and see what it does. Cecil will be here very soon and based off of the results I have seen with my car in esp, I think it will do very well this year.

[jcox07]

Dewitt : Looking at the nats this year and the top mustang in fs that was on hoosiers was 5.3 seconds behind Jadrice and the top mustang in tire class on street tires was 13 seconds behind Jadrice. So I guess what I am asking is where do you think the fs mustang on street tires will be any where close to a prepped GT500 on hoosiers or a prepped Boss 302 on hoosiers. If you go off of nats results it shows that street tires fs will not be even in the same ballpark as a prepped GT500 or prepped Boss on hoosiers in esp.

[thrdeye]

I think it was John Brown back in the day that told me trying to compare national results outside of class, let alone to our locals, was mental masturbation. It might be fun, but it's just pretend

sent from typotalk

[jcox07]

I was going off of black lake results, yea its not nats, but it was a 60 second course. I hope to see just how good my car is at cecil.

[John Brown]

(@ Harp) ... yea, prolly.

In text here tho I simply meant.. Dewhutt has no clue what prep is put into a "current" "Stock Class" car... obviously. And Im sure the FS Mustang is a nice car... but I also think it has absolutely NO NATIONALLY COMPETITIVE PREP DONE TO IT!...

another 10K might get it ini the ball park..... (THATS why we have Tar Class)

[dewittpayne]

(@ Harp) ... yea, prolly.

In text here tho I simply meant.. Dewhutt has no clue what prep is put into a "current" "Stock Class" car... obviously. And Im sure the FS Mustang is a nice car... but I also think it has absolutely NO NATIONALLY COMPETITIVE PREP DONE TO IT!...

another 10K might get it ini the ball park..... (THATS why we have Tar Class)

It's hard to spend 10K on a legal Stock class car and get benefit for bucks. Sure, you could buy really expensive custom shocks and ultra-light wheels, but that's about it. I put the equipment on the car that Sam Strano recommended, Koni yellow shocks, an adjustable rear sway bar and the FSM crash bolts to give a little extra front camber. According to him, spending more will only get you a trivial increase in performance. Now maybe if you cheat, you could spend that kind of money to make it hard to detect the cheats. Prepping motors for Showroom Stock in club racing was more expensive than building a Prod car motor because you had to make it look like you hadn't prepped it at all.

I doubt it would cost 10K to put my car in ESP trim.

[jcox07]

Dewitt, it would be about 10k-12k to get your car in esp trim to be in the hunt for the top 6 spots at nats. If you are going to nats in FS and you want to win or place 6th that can be measured in 1-5 tenths for being in first place to 6th place, that is how close some have been. That is why you do the lightweight wheels and K & W Variant 3 coilovers and any thing that will gain you a tenth, that can be the difference between winning and losing, and yes Sam Strano helped me set up my car as well.

[John Brown]

did you say crash bolts?? Is that an approved repair in Fords repair manual?
and Im being serious.

[jcox07]

CCW wheels set of 4 3200.00, K & W Variant coilovers 2500.00, lightweight seats 750.00, rear and front bars 500.00ish, hoosiers 1500.00 set of 4, camber plates 450.00, watts link 750.00, control arms 450.00, torsion diff 750.00. That is 10,850.00 dollars off of the top of my head and I am sure I missed some things. ESP trim

[dewittpayne]

This year in FS, the top four were covered by ~0.5 seconds. Fifth was over one second further back. I'm still not convinced that at the limit it's not more about driver skill and confidence rather than preparation. I suspect that, especially in the Stock classes where modifications are limited, there's more difference between individual sets of tires than you can gain by spending an unlimited amount of money on shocks. Not to mention that without full instrumentation and testing on a four or seven post rig plus a really good suspension dynamics analysis program, it's unlikely that you can find the optimum shock settings. And, of course, if you change anything, even tire pressure, you have to re-adjust the shocks.

[John Brown]

snicker....
this is funny.

[thrdeye]

I definitely think there are diminishing returns when it comes to buying $5k shocks. But, some cars benefit more than others.

I disagree that you need any sort of rig for testing.....except for an autocross course and a timer.

[dewittpayne]

did you say crash bolts?? Is that an approved repair in Fords repair manual?
and Im being serious.

Yes.

FSM page 204-00-2:

GENERAL PROCEDURES
Camber Adjustment — Front
NOTE:
If camber adjustment is necessary to resolve a vehicle alignment issue, then slotting the strut at the lower mounting plate and installing a cam bolt is an acceptable method. This procedure should not be routinely performed with all alignments and only after all other possible sources have been inspected and corrected as necessary.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=725&viewfile=C ... 0Front.pdf

The procedure details how much the lower hole on the strut can be slotted. Adjustable caster bolts are included as well, but I didn't install them. The Ford part # is 3B236.

[jcox07]

I have had 3 different sets of coilovers and 4 sets of bars and other suspension mods. I KNOW for a fact that any info from ads or machines WILL NOT translate to the car as advertised. I have tried many things to make my mustang go fast and drive good, I think I have got it right. I think if Mark P. is asked or Rob C. or any one else that has driven my car will tell you that it does what you ask it to do. I have learned what it likes and its dislikes as well, but if I went off of all techno bs I would still be chasing the fast guys and not be one of the ones being chased. I like the look of being chased better, it means I am fast and that is not from some data or any other info dohickies.