New rules/Camaro 1le

[Dr Evil]

So much depends on track layout. With the new rule for tread wear it may shake things up quite a bit. The Camaro has a larger tire patch and can hold 2nd gear all the way to 77mph where the Mustang is at 67mph based on the gearing above. A shift to 3rd gear or bouncing the rev limiter where the Camaro can stay in a lower gear an extra 10mph. There is always a trade off, unless of course my math is wrong.

[dewittpayne]

All it takes to counter that advantage is a few slow corners. The 1LE is geared for the track, not for autocross. I'd like to see the times from 30-60mph in second gear for a 1LE and a 5.0. I'm betting there's a significant difference in favor of the 5.0.

[oldmuscle69]

Is this sort of like compairing the carts the youngsters drive between rounds to the rental tanks in Gatlinburg?

All it takes to counter that advantage is a few slow corners. The 1LE is geared for the track, not for autocross. I'd like to see the times from 30-60mph in second gear for a 1LE and a 5.0. I'm betting there's a significant difference in favor of the 5.0.

[Dr Evil]

There is no free lunch. The mechanical gearing and torque multiplication advantage that the mustang enjoys is countered by less available mph in a given gear. No one is contesting that the mustang has an advantage here. I'm just pointing out the rest of the story.
I'd like to see a 45-75mph times in second gear for the mustang and Camaro.
I do not know if it will happen for sure but I suspect that with the change to 140treadwear and soon to 200treadwear you may start to see of few more 5th gen Camaros come out and play. Until now no one made an R comp or competitive tire. That and the ability to step down 1" in wheel height opens up a lot of possibilities that didn't exist before.

[dewittpayne]

I've never hit the rev limiter in an autocross unless I forget to shift to second gear. That includes courses at zMax and Michelin's Black Lake.

I was looking up road tests and the data doesn't make sense. Road and Track compared a 2010 Camaro SS with the 6.2L engine to a 2011 Mustang GT Premium, the Mustang was geared lower, had smaller diameter tires and weighed less. Yet the 0-60 times were identical. The only thing I can think of is that neither car's tires could handle the torque in first gear and acceleration was being limited by the traction control systems.

[thrdeye]

Being able to stay in second gear *can* be a big advantage. But 67 MPH in second gear is high enough that I think it would be a rare occasion (considering street tires) to bounce it enough that shifting to 3rd would be worth it.

On the other hand, that Camaro probably has enough grunt that a taller second gear will likely have minimal effect on its acceleration out of a slower corner.

Crap shoot. My bench racing verdict is that the smaller/narrower/lighter car will be the faster car on an autocross course. Or it will be the car with the least intrusive nannies.

[dewittpayne]

I'm beginning to think that the big advantage of R-comps for an RWD car with lots of power is more being able to put the power to the ground than increased lateral acceleration. I haven't been able to find the data yet, but I suspect that the 0-60 time for my car on Hoosiers would be a lot less than it is on the OEM street tires, possibly less than 4 seconds. That may also mean that I need to cram the widest tires that will fit inside the fenders on the rear wheels.

[John Brown]

I'm beginning to think that the big advantage of R-comps for an RWD car with lots of power is more being able to put the power to the ground than increased lateral acceleration. I haven't been able to find the data yet, but I suspect that the 0-60 time for my car on Hoosiers would be a lot less than it is on the OEM street tires, possibly less than 4 seconds. That may also mean that I need to cram the widest tires that will fit inside the fenders on the rear wheels.

News Flash! eh, never mind....

[jcox07]

Ford says 0-60 on a 2011 GT is 4.5 seconds, but with some drag slicks you might get it down to 3.9-4.1 second time frame.

[thrdeye]

Someone that knows more than me about Loosiers can chime in, but although they help get the car off the corner better (in a turning AND accelerating situation), they do not have a significant impact on 0-60 times as compared to a good street tire. The sidewalls are just way too stiff to see much gain.

A drag tire is a different story altogether.

[jcox07]

No the a-6 will be better than street tires by far

[thrdeye]

Better? Yes.

By far? I disagree, but I guess you have to define "by far".

To clarify, I do mean 0 (full stop) to 60 comparing good 140-200TW tires to the A6.

[jcox07]

By far on my car is almost a full second in 0-60 times

[dewittpayne]

John Brown,

It's news to me.

I've heard from other people that going wider than some particular section width, depending on the rim width, doesn't make a difference or even makes things worse. Mounting street tires on rims much narrower than the manufacturer recommended width means that stresses move to places that weren't designed for them. That means they are only suitable for competition and I'm back to needing a trailer for the tires. I almost always need to drive more than 200 miles total, sometimes a lot more, to get to an event and I can't fit four tires inside the car and carry anything else, like a floor jack. If I do that, I might as well run Hoosiers because they cost about the same as ZII's in the same size.

I still don't understand why being able to spend a zillion dollars on shocks doesn't violate the spirit of the Stock/Street rules, but wider wheels does.

[dewittpayne]

By far on my car is almost a full second in 0-60 times

I believe it. The first to second gear ratio in the GT500 is almost 1.57:1. There's no way you could use anywhere close to full throttle with street tires in first gear without creating a large cloud of smoke.