STM to 200tw?

[dewittpayne]

I don't have a horse in this race, but IMO, as long as the tire manufacturer certifies that the tires are safe for use on public roads, not just DOT approved, they should be OK for STM. Tread wear ratings shouldn't be an issue for this class.

[ke0ki2k]

I don't have a horse in this race, but IMO, as long as the tire manufacturer certifies that the tires are safe for use on public roads, not just DOT approved, they should be OK for STM. Tread wear ratings shouldn't be an issue for this class.

Sounds good in theory - but then anyone on a set of R888's or NT01's would stomp the life out of STM.

..I'm down with this rule, I've got a car on NT01's

[dewittpayne]

The NT01 is designated as a competition tire by the manufacturer, not a street tire:

The NT01 is a D.O.T.-compliant dry competition radial designed with the weekend road racer in mind.

as are the R888's:

The Proxes R888 is Toyo’s Racetrack & Autocross Only tire for driving enthusiasts participating in road racing, track days and high-performance driving schools.

{emphasis added}

[jcox07]

The toyos are run on a LOT of mustangs around this area as well as the like a rock car company, I think it is called govment motors.

[Wheelman_13]

[John Brown]

looks like STM is okay wit doze cheetor tarZ....

[ke0ki2k]

The NT01 is designated as a competition tire by the manufacturer, not a street tire:

The NT01 is a D.O.T.-compliant dry competition radial designed with the weekend road racer in mind.

as are the R888's:

The Proxes R888 is Toyo’s Racetrack & Autocross Only tire for driving enthusiasts participating in road racing, track days and high-performance driving schools.

{emphasis added}

You determine road legality based on marketing jargon? They're road legal tires, according to the federal government.

[dewittpayne]

Section 13.3 of the draft Solo II rules for Street Class: "Tires must be designed for highway use on passenger cars."[emphasis added] Section 14.3 for Street Touring: "Tires must meet the eligibility requirements of the Street class..."

Hoosier A6 and R6 are DOT approved. Does that make them street tires too? Hardly.

And calling a tire model a competition tire isn't advertising jargon, it's legal boilerplate to insulate the company from lawsuits.

I'm also looking at things like under what category the tires are listed at Tirerack. The R888 is listed in the Track and Competition DOT Tires Race Track and Autocross Only, the same section in which the A6 and R6 are listed, not in the Passenger Tire section. That makes them R-comps along with the other tires in that section: BFGoodrich g-Force R1, BFGoodrich g-Force R1 S, Hankook Ventus Z214, Kumho Ecsta V700, Kumho Ecsta V710, Toyo Proxes RA1 and the Toyo Proxes RR.

All the standard tires for street and ST classes are listed in the Extreme Performance Summer sub section of the Passenger Tire section. Tirerack doesn't sell Nitto's but the NTO1 would fail the minimum 7/32 tread depth rule of 13.3 as well because most of the tread grooves except for the two circumferential grooves are only 3/32 deep and even the circumferential grooves are only 6.3/32 deep. The NT01 is an R-comp with a little extra rubber and some cosmetic grooves.

The fact that some people are willing to take the risk of driving competition tires on the street against the recommendation of the tire manufacturer does not transform those tires to street tires.

[jcox07]

Dewitt, if the r-comps are so bad and the tire company says don't use these on the street or highway, then we better not use them in autox because I can tell you for a fact that I am harder on my hoosiers than I am on the street tars. So in your way of thinking we better not use those r-comps in autox because if they can't take the street driving then they in no way can take the hardcore beating we give them in the parking lot wars.

[dewittpayne]

Dewitt, if the r-comps are so bad and the tire company says don't use these on the street or highway, then we better not use them in autox because I can tell you for a fact that I am harder on my hoosiers than I am on the street tars. So in your way of thinking we better not use those r-comps in autox because if they can't take the street driving then they in no way can take the hardcore beating we give them in the parking lot wars.

Do you run them when it's raining hard?

They're not bad, they're just not designed for daily driving on the highway. They puncture much more easily on the tread and the sidewall. They have minimal to no traction on wet roads. They say to not use them on the highway for daily driving because of factors like those, not cornering loads. They're designed for high lateral and longitudinal loads when cornering, braking or accelerating Competition tires tend to leak air much faster than street tires too. And in autocross, if the tire does fail or lose traction unexpectedly, you're not going to cross a median and hit an oncoming car or fall off the road and hit a tree or a pedestrian.

[jcox07]

This is just like...never mind....

[dewittpayne]

If you couldn't run a tire in the National street touring classes last year, why would you expect to be able to run them in STM ever regardless of the wear index? The tread wear index isn't the sole criterion for determining tire eligibility in Street Tire classes. Removing it completely would still not make the R888 or NT01 into street tires.

[John Brown]

This is just like...never mind....

er,uh... I mean, nevermind.

[Wheelman_13]

DeWitt.....you do understand that STM was originally known as "Street Tony Mod" because "nobody" wanted to deal with SCCA's convoluted rules (not in quotes because they are) and just wanted to "run whatcha brung" on "normal tars" right?

This isn't a national class, so national rules mean nothing. This Region just decided to use the existing definition of an "ST" tire at the time because why re-invent the (definition of) the wheel. This cannot and should not be considered beholden to any other "ST" class rules. The only thing it has in common are two letters in the acronym

For the record, though, I'm not in favor of allowing the pseudo-R tires in, even though I will be driving to/from the track on my R888's I don't want to create that type of arms race in STM because I feel it would hurt attendence/participation.

[integra55]

The fact that some people are willing to take the risk of driving competition tires on the street against the recommendation of the tire manufacturer does not transform those tires to street tires.

but not against the rules set forth by the DOT … they ARE legal to drive on the street (by definition) …

yes you might have trouble in a law suit with the tire manufacturer … but if you're going to drive them on the street you'd be a bit of a horses' ass to expect the tire co. to take care of you (because of their CYA language)