Let's talk corner weight w/ springs (not coilovers) & sways

[Pewter Sonoma]

I've been doing some research on trying to get the camaro to be a great driving machine, and I've come to the conclusions that adjustable coils is the best way to go for adjustability - however I'm staying with springs, adjustable shocks, and sway bars. I know this doesn't allow as much adjustment, but it is what it it.

My question is - how much CAN you adjust side to side weight distribution with this set-up? I can't seem to find any info on how much preload in the sway bars adjust weight distribution can impact the overall set-up. Anyone have an idea how much this can affect the distribution? Would it be possible to go from a 45/55 set-up to 49/51 simply with preload in the bars?

Secondly, I've read that with springs, it is possible to allow some adjustability by 'clocking, or roatating the spring within the spring pocket to change the weight at the corner.' - Can anyone explain how this is done? The other description is to 'rotate the spring and intoall stop bolts in the lower spring pocket.'

I know the camaro isn't the best set-up for 50/50 weight distribution, but I would like to try and get this beast a little more proportioned weight wise.

Please teach this grasshoper.

[thrdeye]

When the car is at rest, a swaybar isn't going to change anything about your cross weights. You're not preloading a spring. When the car leans, the swaybar is using the unloaded side of the suspension to create resistance....the bigger the bar, the less it twists, the less you lean (in theory). Adjustable swaybars only allow you to change the resistance of the swaybar....nothing to do with the ride height. Someone might be able to explain better than me.

As far as aligning the springs out of the "pocket"....

There's usually a knurl on the spring perch that the end of the spring slides into to keep it from rotating. I don't know anything about intentionally mis-aligning them to increase spring rate. I don't know what the shocks and springs look like on a camaro, but i can't imagine how you would do this without INCREASING ride height. And at that point, if you're adding ride height, you would be able to (sort of) corner weight the car.

If you want to corner weight the car, you need to do something different IMO. I think we should change the thread title to "Talk Derek into buying coilovers"

What makes you want to stay away from them?

[Pewter Sonoma]

When the car is at rest, a swaybar isn't going to change anything about your cross weights.

I was under the impression that it does. hmmm. Perhaps this is why I can't find any values. I thought if the sway bars were under pressure and adding tension on one side, it would then add some weight to that side....works in theory in my head as well.

What makes you want to stay away from them?

Cost and lack of options for F-Bodys. Plus I just put new springs and adjustable shocks in it. So now I'm focusing on bars (which doesn't sould like they help side to side weight distribution like I thought they did), and weight transfer where needed.

[TedV]

leaf springs can use shims between axle and spring to jack weight. A coil over threaded perch is a wedge shaped spacer in a circular form. Think about it.

sway bars should be removed for corner weigh balance. Once corner weight is set, adjust the sway bars to have zero preload. sway bars should only work when weight is being transfered in a corner if you intend to use them as a sway bar.

[thrdeye]

"Preloading" a spring usually means moving the bottom spring perch up without raising the ride height. This can lower the car, and increase spring rate (if it's a progressive rate spring). It also can't be done unless you have coilovers....I guess you could cut the springs. I'm not talking "Cut the spring, y0!", as there are proper ways that you can do it if you put some thought into it.....but still is probably not the best idea

So Ted, how do you preload a swaybar? Explain like on a mcphereson car. Shorter endlinks?

[MARKP]

Preload on a sway bar would be something like putting a shorter end link on one side. Effectively, what you are doing is putting the bar in a bind at a resting state like it would do when you are cornering. It's an old circle track trick and works on the rear bar for drag racers to help keep the right rear planted when leaving the line. The problem I see with this for those that like to turn both directions is it is also like putting a stiffer spring in one corner. Generally not a good idea if you like to turn both left and right.

You only have two correct options on corner weighting without using coil overs. Move some stuff around in the car, like the battery, or get some spacers made to put under the spring where needed. Back to Chris's statement, buy some coil overs and sell what you have.

[01badz28]

Derek, have you looked at ground control?

[TennTechMan]

On a pinch-bolt style strut car you can slide the knuckle along the length of the strut a little to improve corner weighting. It's only a small amount though.

"Sway" bars are also often called "roll resistance" bars. That's because that's all they're designed to do, resist body roll in a corner. In a corner, the outside suspension is loaded (causing the wheel to move upward relative to the car). The inside suspension is being unloaded (causing the wheel to move downward relative to the car). The sway bar is a "spring" that ties the two sides together. The bigger the sway, the more resistance to RELATIVE travel of the suspension from one side of the car to the other. Also, the bigger the sway, the less independent the suspension is from one side to the other.

If you preload a sway bar (using adjustable end links), the car will turn better one direction than the other. You would be effectively taking some spring rate away from one side of the car, and adding it to the other. Hope that makes sense.


Cutting coils (fractions of coils only) could corner weight the car. I've personally never done this, but seems like it could work.

[Wheelman_13]

Derek, have you looked at ground control?

+1

There may be small ways to fiddle as above, but without an adjustable spring perch you'll spend a lot of time banging your head against a wall for minimal return. (...humble opinion and all that).

Also, might be good to just weigh the car as-is to see how badly it even needs it. The MR2 with me in it was nearly even cross weights on stock suspension, not much need to fiddle even if I could.

[Z06Fix]

Option 1: http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog/pr ... ts_id=1558

Option 2: Buy a vette and have ride height/corner weight adjustment stock

[01badz28]

I don't think lg Is selling 4th gen parts anymore. I tried to order aarms from them last year and they told me they were going over to the 5th gen. Derek, I would get the front konis on first and match up what you already have in the back.

[Pewter Sonoma]

$2300 for coilovers is not in my budget.

I already run LG Motorsports lower rear arms, but I think you are correct Ryan - they are no longer available for 4th gens. I hate rod ends on the street though, it clunks over every little bump and it's annoying.

Thanks for the info guys. I was misinformed on the sway bar and weight distribution relationship. I reckon I'll stick with Koni shocks and call it a day.

[01badz28]

The GC kit is only $419 plus shipping, and is pretty popular amongst open trackers. However, I think you are better off getting the konis and going from there.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/pro ... I=21/CA=67

[maximus31]

Koni's or blisteins if you can get them for your car. GC kit is good. If you go with different spring rates in the future order hypercoils instead of eibach springs. The hypercoils go through better quality control and tend to match better.