STM at Bristol Match Tour

[integra55]

Not trying to stir the pot, but what happens if an STM car wins the match tour? Won't that piss off some people that have done a lot of work to stay within the guidelines of a nationally recognized class? Especially if they are on 140 treadwear. Not trying to cause trouble, just trying avoid it in the future.

didn't we pretty much give STM an A Mod pax ? that should take care of any problems about a STM car winning the shoot out

[dewittpayne]

Event #1, STM winner Cathers, adjusted time 49.876, 7th place overall and in Pro.
#2, Luttrell, 41.443, 7th overall and in Pro
#3 (both days), Coleman, 416.248, 16th overall, 11th in Pro
#4, Coleman, 50.641, 8th overall, 8th in Pro
#5, Gibson, 48.897, 18th overall, 7th in Pro
#6 (both days), Coleman, 95.274, 16th overall, 6th n Pro
#7 (both days), Disney, 57.785, 9th overall, 8th in Pro
#8, Disney, 48.339, 9th overall, 9th in Pro
#9, Disney, 53.789, 16th overall, 11th in Pro
#10, Disney, 34.428, 9th overall, 7th in Pro
#11, Coleman, 33.784, 15th overall, 11th in Pro
#12, Coleman, 42.634, 4th overall, Ran in the dry, Pro's ran on a wet course.

Also, for the purposes of Pro position, I used the best time, rather than the best time of the first three runs. It would seem that a PAX of 0.848 for STM is reasonable for local events.

I misread the rules. Qualifying for the Match Tour Shootout is based on index.

[dewittpayne]

didn't we pretty much give STM an A Mod pax ? that should take care of any problems about a STM car winning the shoot out

Yes. But there has been a move to give them some chance, rather than no chance at all, by giving STM the same PAX as CAM-S, 0.848. CAM-S is now open to late model Corvettes and Vipers. I would be very surprised if even with that PAX, any STM made it into the top 16 of a National event.

[integra55]

it was my understanding that the A Mod PAX for STM was so that there would be zero whining about how they couldn't win ... if they come onboard knowing that their PAX is 1.0, then the participants in the class would know exactly where they stood before any runs were taken ... after all it's a " run what you brung" with little consideration for what they brung ... this gave them THIER own class as it were ...

which would be fine for regional comp.

never meant for national comp ... A Mod PAX takes care of that

and the other regions that have basically the same class can run with our STM with no problems ... 140 or higher TW ... go have fun ...

[RxCritical]

it was my understanding that the A Mod PAX for STM was so that there would be zero whining about how they couldn't win ... if they come onboard knowing that their PAX is 1.0, then the participants in the class would know exactly where they stood before any runs were taken ... after all it's a " run what you brung" with little consideration for what they brung ... this gave them THIER own class as it were ...

which would be fine for regional comp.

never meant for national comp ... A Mod PAX takes care of that

and the other regions that have basically the same class can run with our STM with no problems ... 140 or higher TW ... go have fun ...

This.

[thrdeye]

With a pax of 1.0, there is no point in an STM driver running on Sunday since it would be impossible to get into a shootout.

It is still virtually impossible with an .848, but if someone drove like an alien and brought a well prepped car, there might be an outside shot. .848 is a decently number that would give an *excellent* driver with a *great* car an outside shot at competing in the shootout without being soft enough to cause a problem.

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[integra55]

since STM isn't a national class with pretty much zero rules ... why would they expect to be considered contenders for the Sun shootout ?

like I said above, I was under the impression that it was created several yrs ago as a place for folk to play that just wanted to "race" what they had ... without any regard to what, where they fell in amongst the rest of "us" ... they would be playing with others that felt the same way ... just them and their own class

so yeah, an A Mod PAX would take care of that ... but maybe I don't remember the origins of STM all that well ... it's starting to sound like the IT RR class of cars ... they get their class, rules ...etc .. but no runoffs invites ... not welcome ... come out and race and have fun ... but you ain't EVER going to become a runoffs/nationals class ... and everyone was fine with that ... for about a yr or two ... it's (from what I read) been a "fight" ever since then ... with some wanting to forget the original primacy of the rules about IT and the runoffs/nationals .. and others trying to keep things the way they were originally designed ...

so, you're probably right ... no chance for a shootout win ... but should they be guaranteed a shot at the shootout ? I don't see it, assuming I understand how STM came to be, and why they came to be ....

and as a non STM competitor, if my views aren't welcome I'll go away and just watch from afar

[dewittpayne]

but you ain't EVER going to become a runoffs/nationals class ... and everyone was fine with that ... for about a yr or two ...

I remember when they said that about Showroom Stock. Then it was Spec Miata. Back in the dim reaches of the past, Formula Ford ran with Formula B until there were a sufficient number of cars running to justify creating a separate class. The sad thing is that SCCA now creates National classes for cars like the infamous Shelby CanAm and Formula Enterprise that were barely off the drawing board. I'm pretty much bored to tears by Regional IT Enduros. They may be lucrative for the sponsoring region (although I have my doubts about that), fun for the drivers and relatively cheap track time, but they're going to end up with no volunteer workers at some point.

[jcox07]

Guys, you all are forgetting something, we can't pick the pax for stm, it will have to stay as it is in our region or get the pax we pick approved by the National office for the match tour.

[integra55]

ok, but can't we explain to the national folk what the "class" is and why we have it, and how we'd like to separate it from the "real" classes ? and get them to buy in on leaving it alone to play with themselves ?

I realize we're dealing with the "but that's not how we've always done things" cadre that is the SCCA (and I thought that within our own region we had assigned it A Mod PAX) which would fall in with part of your first sentence ( Guys, you all are forgetting something, we can't pick the pax for stm, it will have to stay as it is in our region)

and that FWIW (for the national guys) regions around us, have classes pretty much the same as ours ... so no surprise for those drivers ... tweaks to the "rule set" only

assuming there is any "common sense" running things out in the midwest ( LOL) then it shouldn't be a problem for them to just ignore our little play class.. especially since so many regions around here do the same thing

but, remembering that I don't do national event, and probably can be accused of not knowing my butt from a hole in the ground, all I've tried to do is through our, what, I considered to be a common sense approach to the "problem" and now looking back at it, realize that common sense might not be the answer LOL

I have total faith in y'all finding a way to get through this

I'll step away from the mic now

[Gen52SS]

Guys, you all are forgetting something, we can't pick the pax for stm, it will have to stay as it is in our region or get the pax we pick approved by the National office for the match tour.

STM... a non-National local fun class.

I’m really trying to get a handle on all of this…If STM is not an official National class, it wouldn't be offered for any national event (Match Tour) YES/NO? This whole STM stuff is giving me a headache to understand. Since STM is a local class and not a national class it does not have a PAX. So it is defaulted to 1.000. How do we as a region have the authority to add STM or change PAX?

Isn’t STM a local, people who really don’t care to travel and run national events? It’s a made-up class that is essentially "Have FUN and run what ya brung" as long as it's running 200TW tires or greater? However don’t we allow our STM cars to run 140TW tires? Will these STM cars need to buy 200TW for the Match Tour? What about people coming from other regions with STM cars on 200TW tires? I need my medication.

[jcoatney]

I think we should leave STM pax at 1.00 because that is the nature of the class. They will still be able to run the regional on Saturday but If STM drivers want to compete at a national competition they need to class their cars in the appropriate class. That's what the would have to do if they traveled to a region without an STM class.

[jcox07]

Jon, 100% right as this is what I have said from the beginning. Walter they will be in their own class but if they want to run Sunday they can and if we can get a pax for stm before the event I will post what Harmer says about that but they will be able to run on sunday as well and if they get in the shootout then so be it.

[thrdeye]

Hmm. I assumed it would run as a supplemental class for the event. Just like any other class that has run nationals/tour that isn't in the rulebook.

If that's not possible per brian harmer, then my suggestion would be that the top 4 stm cars get their own shootout

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[thrdeye]

One other point for everyone that isn't familiar. Match tours are not hardly as serious bzns as a pro solo or regular tour. They arent intended to be anyway. They are headed that direction though now that the format seems more well liked than previous years.

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