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Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:48 am
by jcox07
The east course was very tight in the dry with plenty of walks as I tried two lines and couldn't find a good spot to try and even get close to the top guys in esp. Hopefully we will have more than 2 course designers to choose from for the next 3 years.....
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:59 am
by jcox07
I'll add that the east course was a visual nightmare as well cause you could go so many different ways with no lining of the course as the course designers wanted to wait till the morning of, but it was pouring the rain, that will not be an option for the next 3 years as they will line it when it is set up.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:39 am
by thrdeye
Teufelshund wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:24 am
So how do the heats work? Are people running/working on consecutive days, or does everyone have to be there the entire time? It's hard to justify taking 6 or 7 days off work for 6 runs. We're definitely planning on going next year, so I'm trying to get my head wrapped around the logistics.
Both courses are running at the same time. Think of it just like the Bristol Champ Tour, but on a bigger scale. You can offer to work on your non-run days if you want, but it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to. I recommend getting there on Sunday to get settled in (Saturday if you run Tue/Wed). Enjoy Monday by walking course(s), and find some time to run the test course just to get a little seat time. It will go very very quick.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:40 am
by thrdeye
jcox07 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:48 am
The east course was very tight in the dry with plenty of walks as I tried two lines and couldn't find a good spot to try and even get close to the top guys in esp. Hopefully we will have more than 2 course designers to choose from for the next 3 years.....
Your definition of tight is way different than mine. There were the two decreasing radius turns, but nothing tight.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:42 am
by jcox07
Every big car including wonder boy from SSR thought the east course was extremely tight...
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:52 am
by steverife
I was crewing for Canak/Bailey on the East on Friday and Karen came up and talked to Canak about the course. Very interesting to get her insight. She said that one of her goals in course design is to keep slower cars in 2nd gear.
Honestly, I liked the course and have always enjoyed her courses. I would have loved a few more looks at it (preferably before it was pinched off and in the hot and dry.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:55 am
by jcox07
Probably the last time she will do one in the next 3 years unless we only have 2 people put in to do them. I haven't driven one of her courses that I have even remotely liked.
Edit; Keeping slower cars in 2nd gear means fast cars are really down in speed and ability, especially cars with 2nd gear speeds of mid 80's on mph. I think Robert Lewis hit it best, if there isn't 3 places on course that every car can be foot to the floor, then it is a bad design.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:09 pm
by steverife
My 100% honest opinion is that if cars that are closing in on 20 lb/whp and run to 60 mph in 2nd absolutely HAVE to shift, the course is too fast.
edit: Canak and Bartek weren't grabbing 3rd on the West course either.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:12 pm
by jcox07
Look at pax results and people will forget that scca officals shortened the west course after 2nd heat on Tuesday by 75 feet which will skew the pax results and no way does Palotta pax out at over 500 except it was wet on day one and he ran the full length course on the west course. Lots of un controllable things happened at this solo nationals.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:21 pm
by jcox07
There lies the problem for the big power cars, if no one has to shift in little cars or does not hit the limiter then it really is no fun in a big power car. Take the match course at BMS I hit 69 mph in my car but it felt faster than that cause the course flowed well, just like JB's champ course as it was the same fast flowing style but not over 70 mph, neither course at nationals felt that way and I liked the west course as it was way better than the east with way less cones being used and the visuals way better and easier to read.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 pm
by thrdeye
I thought Karen's course did two things very good. Input density and feeling fast.
If it were better visually I wouldn't have any complaints with it. She just used a lot of two cone gates and things are hard to find when you use too many of those.
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Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 pm
by jcox07
I'll add that most don't travel all the way to Lincoln to have average speed courses, that's what most relayed to me any way, they want a little above average speed considering it is concrete for now.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:30 pm
by steverife
jcox07 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:21 pm
There lies the problem for the big power cars, if no one has to shift in little cars or does not hit the limiter then it really is no fun in a big power car. Take the match course at BMS I hit 69 mph in my car but it felt faster than that cause the course flowed well, just like JB's champ course as it was the same fast flowing style but not over 70 mph, neither course at nationals felt that way and I liked the west course as it was way better than the east with way less cones being used and the visuals way better and easier to read.
Who said anything about not hitting limiter?
The ES Miatas, which have 2 mph more of 2nd than the Spyders, and top out at 59mph were in the limiter going into the first 3 turn arounds. That's all I could hear, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got it in up to 3 more places.
edit: To clarify, referencing the East course.
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:50 pm
by jcox07
I don't see how they got that fast and hit the limiter in the first 3 turn arounds on the east course unless they were missing a gate or staying in first gear...lol The Miata of Doug Gill was not even on the limiter at 52mph on the west course during setup and barely on the limiter on the east course before the seb made Karen slow it down, so I don't know how they managed to hit 59
Re: 2018 Nationals
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:52 pm
by jcox07
West course I could maybe se them on the limiter for a pop or two but not even on that course would they be on it more than two pops....