East Tennessee Region SCCA

SSC Scion FRS for those that don't know...

Last 2 events at zMax, the car has gotten progressively pushier each run and throughout each run. Most people seem to think the Falkens in SSC don't like heat and that is the tire overheating. However, even though I can't hold my line towards the end of the run and am adding distance in sweepers and getting on the throttle later (or not able to use as much throttle on exit), my times are often still dropping. So the car is definitely better in places and I'm not convinced the tire is going away.

Part of me think that I tend to put my head down and look ahead less as I'm more familiar with the course. Or that I'm overdriving. ...but other people in the class really seem to struggle to drop time on last runs.

Rebound, tire pressure, tire temperature control, and driving approach at the things that I can change.

What adjustment do you make in these circumstances?

Pushier when? Entry or exit?

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thrdeye wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:55 am Pushier when? Entry or exit?

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It starts out getting pushy on exit.

Mid-run, it'll get a little pushy mid-turn.

By the end of the run, pushy on entry.

And it is pretty terminal.

Probably just change classes

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*snicker

This might not be the fastest way but if I am driving a car that tends towards pushy, I tend to try to do things to make it loose on entry so it never gets a chance to start to push.

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80 psi in the rear tires? It's a little more predictable than 20psi. Well.. maybe not 80,. 65-70 to start?

TedV wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:00 pm 80 psi in the rear tires? It's a little more predictable than 20psi. Well.. maybe not 80,. 65-70 to start?

Good ol subaru trick for rotation

MARKP wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:05 pm This might not be the fastest way but if I am driving a car that tends towards pushy, I tend to try to do things to make it loose on entry so it never gets a chance to start to push.

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Such as?

Keep in mind that the Falkens seem to be pretty resistant to any significant combination of braking and turning at the same time.

moar Scandinavian flick

steverife wrote:

MARKP wrote: ↑Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:05 pm This might not be the fastest way but if I am driving a car that tends towards pushy, I tend to try to do things to make it loose on entry so it never gets a chance to start to push.

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Such as?

Keep in mind that the Falkens seem to be pretty resistant to any significant combination of braking and turning at the same time.

Having never driven an SSC car, I would guess raising rear pressures or possibly adding a bunch of rebound in the back. Also, since toe out in the front tends to cause mid corner push, I wonder if sacrificing some toe might help.

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I'd guess a combo of Pilson's/Plaster's advice with Ted's will help. Being less-smooth on corner entry will disrupt the rear and reduce push, but it's something you'd need to practice. Think about how you slalomed the CRX and use that kind of input for the entry into corners. Tweaking the rear pressures should also help with the fine-tuning.

I run 0 toe up front and about an 1/8th of an inch in on the rear.

It is super easy to overwhelm the Falkens on entry, so my biggest emphasis is brake, release, pause, turn.

When I execute, the car starts out...

neutral on entry, magical mid-corner, (too) loose (for my tastes) on exit. That progresses to slight push/neutral/magical. That progresses to pushy/slight push/neutral. Then #%@%$!@#/pushy/pushy. It doesn't necessarily get slower, though.

I'm hoping data will help me figure out what the tires are really doing.

unless you can make some hard line adjustments to the car to make the push go away.. its gonna be a gamble every run to try and duplicate sections.
My rule of thumb has always been to adjust the car to my driving style.. not adjust my style to the car. You will always revert back to how you drive.. its hard to remember how to change.
just my .02

I'm hoping data will help me figure out what the tires are really doing.

That would be my suggestion. You need speed and lateral acceleration at a minimum. Tire temperatures with a probe pyrometer and maybe also shock temperature with an IR thermometer would also be on the list. Push could come from the front tires going away, which would give you less lateral acceleration and slower speeds, or from the rear tires increasing grip relative to the front, which would give you the same or higher lateral acceleration and speed. Increased overall grip could also lead to increased weight transfer to the front from the sway bars, causing the car to push more. That would also show up in higher lateral acceleration in the corner.