Attn: Tech guys!

Keith H. · Post by **Keith H.** » Mon May 10, 2004 11:30 am

I just installed my new seat(corbeau forza)and was wondering if I can run it with just the lap belt, cause I won't have a cage or harness bar installed by this weekend. I could bolt the the sholder harnesses into the floor but that would involve dropping the gas tank to get the proper degree or angle.

thanks-

Keith

MARKP · Post by **MARKP** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:08 pm

I'm not a tech buy but I only use a lap belt in the VW. As long as it is bolted to the floor, I wouldn't think it would be a problem.

scottgib · Post by **scottgib** » Mon May 10, 2004 3:44 pm

I was surprised when I looked-up this subject in the rules ----

"3.3.1 Driver Restraints
Seat lap belts are required in all cars, and must be installed in cars with
passive restraint systems that do not include a lap belt. Installation and the use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended, however nonfactory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targatops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met:
a. The roll structure must meet either the requirements of Appendix C
or Section 18 of the GCR.
50
b. The top of the roll structure may not be below the top of the
driver’s helmet when the driver is in the normal driving position."

The part that surprised me was the prohibition of non-factory upper body restraints in hardtop cars. Uh, Doug would you like to comment here?
Anybody, why is this rule in place? I am bound to have missed something here. There a ton of hardtop cars autocrossing that have aftermarket harnesses.

Keith H. · Post by **Keith H.** » Mon May 10, 2004 3:57 pm

That's strange???? So I guess the lap belt is ok.

Post by **ddillow** » Mon May 10, 2004 4:00 pm

scottgib wrote:...however nonfactory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targatops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met:

My read on this that "In these types of cars, you may only use non-stock upper body restraints when there is a rollcage that meets these specs..." I.e. it's only a restriction on harnesses for open top cars.

Installation and use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended..."

This says to me "Smoke 'em if you got 'em".
But then, I can easily read it to say "Only after-market harness in these particular cars, with these particular roll cages." But I don't think that was the intent.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Mon May 10, 2004 4:13 pm

I think you misread the rule Scott.

"Installation and the use of shoulder belts or harnesses is strongly recommended, . . ."

This is the general recommendation, with the following qualifier for open-topped cars only.

" . . . however nonfactory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars, cars with targatops in the open position, or cars with T-tops in the open position when two conditions are met:
a. The roll structure must meet either the requirements of Appendix C
or Section 18 of the GCR.
50
b. The top of the roll structure may not be below the top of the
driver’s helmet when the driver is in the normal driving position."

The wording of the rule is awkward, but when you read it again, note this : "however nonfactory upper body restraints may only be used in open cars . . . when two conditions are met:"

HTH

scottgib · Post by **scottgib** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:00 pm

I get it now. I did miss-read it, but the guy that wrote it could stand some grammer lessons. Look literally ambiguous.

Thanks

Keith H. · Post by **Keith H.** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:37 am

Soooo is that a yay

?? or nay

??

scottgib · Post by **scottgib** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:32 am

Yay, no problem

Keith H. · Post by **Keith H.** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:50 am

AWSOME!!!! I don't think I could miss another event.