Well...won't be making it to the AutoX this Sunday....

[93twotonegt]

So, after getting my replacement strut yesterday, I decided to try to get the car fixed. Tore into it and found the extent of the damage. So far, the damage has been:

Broken rim/tire
Snapped the top of the strut off
Bent up both the flat adjusting plate AND the mounting bolts on the caster/camber plates
Bent up one control arm
Bent the transmission crossmember
Broken vacuum hose on intake manifold (engine rocked over during the hit)
Bent up small spot on brand new radiator where a bolt hit the fins

On the fixing/replacing side:
I have a new set of rims/tires to replace the ones on the car. Same rims, different tires.
I got a replacement strut from an 04 Cobra off a forum
We were able to bend the adjusting plate and bolts back into alignment for the C/C plates
The control arm, while bent on one side, doesn't seem to be out of alignment. Just one edge folded in.
The transmission crossmember is gonna have to be replaced. The metal is just too thick to bend back, a replacement can be had from pull a part for dirt cheap.
Vacuum hose is simple. Motor mounts look to be fine.
Radiator, while bruised, looks to be holding. It didn't leak at the competition after being hit, and hasn't since.

Note, we haven't looked at the rear end yet, but I think it's fine. Nothing visible from the outside at least. It took a glancing blow and is probably alright. Just gonna give it a once over on another day.

The car is at least sitting on all 4 tires again. It's just a matter of fixing the trans crossmember and getting a vacuum line. Simple fixes, but I don't have time to do it before Saturday AND get an alignment before the weekend. I'm also not gonna drive the car with my trans support bushing all twisted up. Just gonna fix it when I have time.

Here's some pics of the stuff that broke. Most were taken at night, so forgive the cruddy quality:













The control arm looks bad, I know. I'm not gonna replace it unless there's an alignment problem. That metal is THICK (1/8"). It just folded in the one side till it hit the spring perch. The measurements we took matched on both sides. I planned on replacing them with nice MM units at some point. They've just been knocked up the ladder a few rungs. I'll probably do the control arms the same time I eventually do coilovers on the front.

[TonyBolton]

I'd be leery of running the SN95 dampers on a LOWERED Fox body. I'm sure you know they're longer, but couple that on a lowered car that uses a shorter damper to begin with really takes away alot from the compression stroke.

I mean, you'll have droop for days....but it seems like you'd want a little more up travel since I don't remember your springs being that stiff(or looking like they were).

[93twotonegt]

It's not lowered. Stock front suspension and stock IRS rear. Yeah, the SN95 struts are longer, but the MM C/C plates pull them out the required distance to make everything right. If I lower the car, it won't be more than about an inch overall, and the C/C plates have spacers that just get stacked on the opposite side of the top stud. The switching of the spacers pulls the strut up around 1", keeping everything where it's supposed to be.

[01badz28]

The only advice I have is to do it once, and use this as an opportunity to do it right.

Aren't some of your handling issues caused by having a little too much real roll stiffness from the Cobra rear end?

[TonyBolton]

The only advice I have is to do it once, and use this as an opportunity to do it right.

Aren't some of your handling issues caused by having a little too much real roll stiffness from the Cobra rear end?

The rear grip of the IRS is most likely overpowering the grip of the front end something incredible(on the Fox chassis)

[93twotonegt]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I do consider myself to be somewhat intelligent when it comes to how a suspension is SUPPOSED to work. I like the rather technical side of things, but I've never done the hardcore research into roll centers, anti-dive, etc. Anyways, here's my opinion on the car's handling characteristics:

I have pics saved from the 10th, and my car has body roll like no other. It's enough that it's causing BOTH the front and rear camber to go positive. Now, the 03 IRS I have is meant for a car that is heavier than my foxbody (let's assume the weight distribution is the same), and that being the case, I'd say the rear is plenty stiff as is between the springs/swaybar.

The front, however, being basically stock, is soft. Really soft. Being soft means that it rolls, a LOT. I'm pretty sure that the front suspension being overly compliant is what's causing the ridiculous body roll across BOTH the front and the rear. Now, when the front rolls and transfers weight, everything would be okay IF the rear did it as well, it's not. The rear being stiffer means that the rear won't transfer the weight as much as the front, and the rear will "run out of grip" before the front, causing an oversteer situation. This has results similar to what happened on the 10th (partly due to me never having to have tried to control the car like that).

Now, if all that follows correctly, then, theoretically, stiffening up the front will help bring the balance of the car BACK to what would be considered normal. I have an eibach swaybar that I got from the guy I bought my rims from. I'm going to throw it on the car (easy swap) and see how it does once it's back up and running. From what I understand, if the rear is too stiff, and the front is too soft, you oversteer. Stiffen the front back up with either springs or a swaybar, and the balance shifts more towards neutral/understeer (AKA "safer").

Ideally, I'd have adjustable coilovers (corner-weight the car) and adjustable swaybars to set the balance correctly. Since I don't have those, experimenting with the front swaybar is the next best thing. If it turns out to be too much or doesn't help at all, swapping back to the stock bar is simple.

[TonyBolton]

On the crap stock suspension of a Mustang, you need as big a bar on the front and stiff as possible springs to basically keep the front wheels from moving. Barbaric indeed, but it's why see people needing to run 3-ish negative degrees static camber in the front.

It's just the design of the front end, which is to lose camber under compression.

[01badz28]

+1 Tony. Thats pretty much the same thing you do on an F-body - the SLA setup on ours is just a little better than what comes on a Mustang.

93twotonegt the first year I autocrossed, it was with a disconnected front sway bar - snap oversteer is a bitch so I feel your pain!

[PushinTheLimit]

Just my curiosity, how would a foxbody react if you disconnected the rear swaybar with his IRS? I know that defeats the purpose of putting the IRS there to begin with but that would keep it from being so tail happy. Or are they so soft that if u did that... they would just drive into the ditch and roll over and play dead lol?

An adjustable front bar would be ideal for your car I think so you could play around with adjustments and see what you like the best.

[TonyBolton]

I honestly believe that with the current tires on the car, trying to fine tune things would be a moot gain.

[93twotonegt]

On the crap stock suspension of a Mustang, you need as big a bar on the front and stiff as possible springs to basically keep the front wheels from moving. Barbaric indeed, but it's why see people needing to run 3-ish negative degrees static camber in the front.

It's just the design of the front end, which is to lose camber under compression.

True. Yours is better suited than mine though. Your control arms are like 1.5" longer per side. You also have around 2" more body/fender per side for monster tires.

Yeah, more camber would help, as would more caster, but I'm basically maxed out right now. The center hole in my strut towers is literally too small. I can get 4* of caster on the passenger side, but only like 2.5* on the drivers. Right now, they're about even....or they were until that day. Camber is around -.8* per side I think. I can't get any more out of camber either until I either A) swap to longer SN95 control arms, which require serious body mods (flares, anyone?), B) switch to coilovers with MM control arms and use 96* spindles, which allow for about a .5* addition, or C) slot the absolute crap out of the upper holes.

I honestly believe that with the current tires on the car, trying to fine tune things would be a moot gain.

Yeah, they're street tires, but eh. I don't have the space for an extra set of rims/tires. I barely have the space for the parts I have left over AND the 3 rims/tires that are still in one piece. I'd rather learn to drive on regular old street tires and then switch to some nicer, stickier tires at a later point. Also upgrading to 17s wouldn't hurt either. Both are in the plans in the future as well.

As for tuning, right now, if the car was more inclined to understeer, I'd be much happier. It's safer and more controlled than oversteer. Yeah, I'm only going to see certain gains, but right now, anything would probably be better than stock. I don't think unhooking the rear swaybar would be a good idea. The IRS doesn't deal with body roll well either. It's better than the front, but still not great.

1badZ,
I'm in agreement with you there. I love how F-bodies have the SLA in the front. Much better design, IMO. I was actually looking for a 4th gen TA for months, but couldn't find one with a manual in my price range that wasn't beaten to death. A guy at work suggested foxbodies and after I did a bit of research, I opened my options to them. I found one in less than 2 weeks and bought it.
.
Right about now, I'm considering fixing what's wrong with the car, selling it, and hunting for a manual C4 vette. I considered them for a while too, but once again, couldn't find one. It'd certainly be a bit of an upgrade in the handling department.

[MARKP]

Looks like most of your thought process on the car's handling is what I would think as well. Since you are going to Pull A Part to pick up the trans crossmember anyway, it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and pick up a lower control arm since they are probably cheap as well. You mentioned it is touching the spring which could cause some rubbing which could, in turn, cause strange handling characteristics at times.

I had a buddy in college that had a 79 Mustang with a lot of various swapped parts. If I remember correctly, he had T-Bird lower control arms on it that gave the car a bunch more camber. He had a 5-lug setup from a Lincoln LSC and SVO wheels on it. All the bodywork was stock. Maybe you could find the T-Bird control arms and make the camber work for you. Of course, all this was 20 years ago so I may have forgotten some information.

[TonyBolton]

I had good luck taking a uni-bit to the top hole in the front struts. Goto town on that sucker, you can get around 1 to 1.5 degree's right there. You can also pick up some camber bolts and use those in the top hole. They're good for 1+/1- degree.

[93twotonegt]

Looks like most of your thought process on the car's handling is what I would think as well. Since you are going to Pull A Part to pick up the trans crossmember anyway, it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and pick up a lower control arm since they are probably cheap as well. You mentioned it is touching the spring which could cause some rubbing which could, in turn, cause strange handling characteristics at times.

I had a buddy in college that had a 79 Mustang with a lot of various swapped parts. If I remember correctly, he had T-Bird lower control arms on it that gave the car a bunch more camber. He had a 5-lug setup from a Lincoln LSC and SVO wheels on it. All the bodywork was stock. Maybe you could find the T-Bird control arms and make the camber work for you. Of course, all this was 20 years ago so I may have forgotten some information.

There's a lot discrepancy of what will, and won't work on the different generations of mustang. I believe that Ford has messed with a LOT of different K-members over the years. On the fox cars, they mainly changed locations of the steering rack and the overall width between the control arms along with pivot point heights. The older cars have more narrow k-members and can run the bigger control arms with no issues. I believe that the late model 88-93 cars have the widest k-members and fitting the longer control arms becomes more of an issue. Once again, lots of discrepancy.

Regardless, I'm going to see if I can't find some SN95 control arms and take some measurements. I'll take a look at some thunderbirds while I'm there. The control arm isn't touching the spring. It's kinda hard to describe unless you see what a clean one looks like. The outer edge of the stamped metal has just been folded inwards. It's touching the underside of the spring pocket on the bottom of the control arm. It was only the edge that was touched. The reason it looks so bad is because the cross-section of the control arm is shaped like a really wide "M". The lower leg of that "M" is what got bent. I'll try to grab some better pics.

Getting these control arms off isn't fun. The stupid stock design has the spring sitting in the control arm and uses the strut to keep the arm from simply snapping all the way down. Remove the strut, and the arm lowers way down, and if you're lucky, the spring doesn't fly out at you. I'm not sure if a spring compressor would fit in there or not.

[TonyBolton]

All you need is a jack and some stands. Use the jack to get the car up as high as possible, put the stands under it, then use the jack to slowly lower the control arm once the damper nut is off at the top. Really simple/easy design to R/R.

I think I could actually change STOCK springs faster than I can coilover springs.