Driving Frustration Setting In

[Gen52SS]

First ….Want you to know I’m still in my first year having a lot of fun at all these autocross events but I want to be a better driver. I’ve been to everyone our events, Chattanooga’s several events, EVO School both days and ETR Driving School. I’m at a point now when frustration is starting to set in. I understand at 68 being an old fart has something to do with it …but then again we have many seniors who run great. It didn’t seem to bother me until after last Sunday’s event. Like anyone I strive to be competitive. Watching the live timing result's just to see me falling to the bottom of the pack again with 6 cars in F Street. At our ETR school I had asked JY if possible to have one of the Pro’s drive my car as clean and fast as possible so I could see just how far off my driving on a timed run by a good driver really is. Due to time we didn’t get to try this out. I don’t care what other cars and drivers in my class run. I just want to know …Am I driving my car as fast as it will go. If a Pro can drive it 1, 2 or 3 seconds faster then I can.... this will answer my question…I have work to do. I don’t know if at what point the car is at its limit or the driver needs more work. My question is I’m going to the Jetport this weekend. I don’t care about points or where I finish there. Is it possible to get one of the Pro’s to take a run or two in my car to see what time they can get so I have a bench mark to shoot for? Is it possible for CRSCCA to disregard my times for the day? Can I get some help on this? Maybe I’m approaching this the wrong way your advice please.

[thrdeye]

How many times have you spun the car?

[John Brown]

What tires? I'll drive it.

[garkit]

I agree with "how many times have you spun it", you need to push the car beyond its limits a few times to find them or at least sort of find them.

[MikeKelly]

The fastest way to learn autocross, get faster, and not having to wonder if you're getting the most out of the car - is a co-driver.

Preferably, one with a different driving style.

It doesn't take that long.


If you do it right, you both get twice as many looks at the course, at speed.

If you do it right, you acquire your co-drivers' fastest habits, and your co-driver acquires yours...

[dewittpayne]

Chris raises a very good point. While it's possible to find the limits of the car without loosing control, it's quicker to find the limit by exceeding it. I saw cameras on your car. Why not upload some videos to YouTube and post links here for comment.

I'm not JB or Mark P, but if you want, I could co-drive with you in your car or you could co-drive with me in mine, assuming I get back from Charlotte in one piece. I have a highly portable data system that will fit in your car.

[rocket71]

It is frustrating to want to get faster but not know exactly what/how you are going wrong. The best way to get faster is to have a co-driver who is faster and video, video, video. Video analysis is how I went from DFL to a trophy at Pro-Solo in right at 1.5 years.

I will be more than glad to help you this weekend in Chatt. I will see what I can do to make it happen. I will be more than happy to do a one on one course walk, drive your car, let you ride with me (I actually drive better when I am narrating a run)

See you there!

[MARKP]

As others have said, I'm happy to help and would co-drive with you as well.

Something that I would do, and still do at some events is target people. If I know I am close to beating someone or have beaten them in the past, I target them as one to beat. If I beat that person then I did what I intended to accomplish. They may not be the fastest person but they were within reach. Then move to the next target.

[90civichb]

I am almost always working the course when you run Gen52ss, and you seem very timid to make mistakes/hit cones. You are driving a very large and heavy car and I am sure that is difficult to overcome on these small courses.

If you would like to try something a bit different, maybe to see if the sheer size of your car is limiting you, you are more than welcome to co-drive my Miata.

[Gen52SS]

How many times have you spun the car? NEVER Chris…my car seems to push way before the back end will come around. The car has a staggered setup with 10.8 wide in rear and 9.6 in front. I have tried different levels of fuel in the tank and tire pressure to force the ass end around to force a spin and maybe I’m doing that wrong as well. My plan was to run this whole season with the tires on the car and already have new Hankooks ready to go on for next season.

Chris Harp
ETR SCCA Regional Executive

While it's possible to find the limits of the car without loosing control, it's quicker to find the limit by exceeding it. I saw cameras on your car. Why not upload some videos to YouTube and post links here for comment. DeWitt these are just a few runs from Chilhowie back to March 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA3eaFa0CvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lguvokc5DXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAldXk8Mdbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrOm0JW5oo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz7Wwyaz8bM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxoK6GnhIk

DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT FS


The best way to get faster is to have a co-driver who is faster and video, video, video. Video analysis is how I went from DFL to a trophy at Pro-Solo in right at 1.5 years.
Berry Langley


Something that I would do, and still do at some events is target people. If I know I am close to beating someone or have beaten them in the past, I target them as one to beat. If I beat that person then I did what I intended to accomplish. They may not be the fastest person but they were within reach. Then move to the next target. Mark... with not that many cars in F Street week to week my benchmark is DeWitt. Clancy from Chat once in awhile he’s usually a bit slower then DeWitt and I have beaten him only once at the Jetport last time which I think pissed him off enough to go out and buy new tires for the next event LOL. With a good driver in the seat is my car fast enough to be competitive in class?

Mark Pilson

I am almost always working the course when you run Gen52ss, and you seem very timid to make mistakes/hit cones. You are driving a very large and heavy car and I am sure that is difficult to overcome on these small courses.
If you would like to try something a bit different, maybe to see if the sheer size of your car is limiting you, you are more than welcome to co-drive my Miata. Thanks for the offer Cody as long as drive close to the limit of my car I’m happy. I’m not there yet.

Cody Yankey
STM #73

[John Brown]

How many times have you spun the car? NEVER Chris…my car seems to push way before the back end will come around. The car has a staggered setup with 10.8 wide in rear and 9.6 in front. I have tried different levels of fuel in the tank and tire pressure to force the ass end around to force a spin and maybe I’m doing that wrong as well. My plan was to run this whole season with the tires on the car and already have new Hankooks ready to go on for next season.

Chris Harp
ETR SCCA Regional Executive

While it's possible to find the limits of the car without loosing control, it's quicker to find the limit by exceeding it. I saw cameras on your car. Why not upload some videos to YouTube and post links here for comment. DeWitt these are just a few runs from Chilhowie back to March 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA3eaFa0CvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lguvokc5DXI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAldXk8Mdbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrOm0JW5oo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz7Wwyaz8bM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVxoK6GnhIk

DeWitt Payne
2011 Mustang GT FS


The best way to get faster is to have a co-driver who is faster and video, video, video. Video analysis is how I went from DFL to a trophy at Pro-Solo in right at 1.5 years.
Berry Langley


Something that I would do, and still do at some events is target people. If I know I am close to beating someone or have beaten them in the past, I target them as one to beat. If I beat that person then I did what I intended to accomplish. They may not be the fastest person but they were within reach. Then move to the next target. Mark... with not that many cars in F Street week to week my benchmark is DeWitt. Clancy from Chat once in awhile he’s usually a bit slower then DeWitt and I have beaten him only once at the Jetport last time which I think pissed him off enough to go out and buy new tires for the next event LOL. With a good driver in the seat is my car fast enough to be competitive in class?

Mark Pilson

I am almost always working the course when you run Gen52ss, and you seem very timid to make mistakes/hit cones. You are driving a very large and heavy car and I am sure that is difficult to overcome on these small courses.
If you would like to try something a bit different, maybe to see if the sheer size of your car is limiting you, you are more than welcome to co-drive my Miata. Thanks for the offer Cody as long as drive close to the limit of my car I’m happy. I’m not there yet.

Cody Yankey
STM #73

Didn't that car win Nationals??

[Gen52SS]

...that was a 1LE track pack car that won nationals has a lot of different equipment ...gears, trans, sway bars, shocks, 26 more HP, tires and wheels I think 11's. Gary Kittel ran our last 2 events in a 1LE and smoked F Street both times if not mistaken. Which brings me to another question why do cars with special factory installed track packs like the 1LE get to run F Street just because it came that way from the factory?

[steverife]

I watched a few minutes of the vids.

1) If you want to really benefit from video, you need to get a shot that shows your inputs and where you are looking.

2) You need to drive tighter lines. You could trim a good chunk of time doing nothing but cutting distance.

3) To get faster, you really have to piece the elements together. Figure out the key cones. Figure out where you need your car to be in relation to those cones, then figure out how to get there. I'd be happy to walk course with you and tell you what I'm thinking. It helps me to talk my way through it, as well.

I don't really subscribe to the go spin it theory. I do think you need to not be afraid to hit some cones and you need to hit some cones to get a feel for how to position your car close to them. Get you line right and just try to get on the gas a little earlier everywhere and you'll drop huge chunks of time.

[John Brown]

I watched a few minutes of the vids.

1) If you want to really benefit from video, you need to get a shot that shows your inputs and where you are looking.

2) You need to drive tighter lines. You could trim a good chunk of time doing nothing but cutting distance.

3) To get faster, you really have to piece the elements together. Figure out the key cones. Figure out where you need your car to be in relation to those cones, then figure out how to get there. I'd be happy to walk course with you and tell you what I'm thinking. It helps me to talk my way through it, as well.

I don't really subscribe to the go spin it theory. I do think you need to not be afraid to hit some cones and you need to hit some cones to get a feel for how to position your car close to them. Get you line right and just try to get on the gas a little earlier everywhere and you'll drop huge chunks of time.

At the school... THIS was the biggest killer of every ones times.. and a very easy fix.. that and un-winding the wheel at the same time.

[thrdeye]

...that was a 1LE track pack car that won nationals has a lot of different equipment ...gears, trans, sway bars, shocks, 26 more HP, tires and wheels I think 11's. Gary Kittel ran our last 2 events in a 1LE and smoked F Street both times if not mistaken. Which brings me to another question why do cars with special factory installed track packs like the 1LE get to run F Street just because it came that way from the factory?

It gets complex trying to explain, but essentially, there are far too many makes, models, and trim packages to give everyone a completely level playing field. So, for new cars, they do the best they can with how the car looks on paper. After a year, a car can be moved to another class if the SEB feels that's in the best interest of both classes.

Stock (Street) class autocross has always been about buying the best (or one of the best) cars for the class you want to run, with the realization that in a year, you could be left with a really expensive paperweight.

A good example of this is the S2000 and the S2000 C/R. Very very similar cars, but the CR is faster, stiffer, etc., so it runs up a class.

If the 1LE becomes a CLEAR overdog in FS, it could possibly be moved.