almost done! event 10

[thrdeye]

If it turns out to be an overdog and they don't have a wide variety of sizes (and if the don't change that tread pattern) I'd be in favor of excluding that sucker.

according to my guy at TR, it's a near 300 TW tire …why should it be excluded ?

Well, maybe take another look at my post...but...let's forget that it's a Toyo for just a second and consider the dynamics of Street category classing. I'm not concerned about ST and don't want the discussions to mingle, but what I'm about to say could happen in ST to a lesser extent.

Now, let's say this awesome new fast ringer tire meets the letter of the rules and is available in 4 diameters and 6 total sizes. Cool. Now, lets say those sizes are 15, 16 (two sizes), 17 (two sizes), and 18. So, lets say you run FS and happen to have an M3. Cool. You can maybe run the 18, if it fits correctly, or you can go down to a 17 inch wheel and pick between the two 17 inch sizes. You're in business. Now, if you're one of the FS guys that has a car that comes with 19's, you can pick from ONE size (the 18) to try to get this ringer tire to work on your car. Now, let's say the tread pattern doesn't change and your fat Mustang kills them in no time.

This is why a wide variety of tire sizes is important for street category. This is of course all hypothetical because I know nothing about the tire and I also think that the Direzza/Hankook would probably be just as fast anyway. But if a tire is brought to market that can truly unbalance a class by having a very limited size run, it should be excluded.

[jcox07]

Leave them in there, it is a good tire and good for the sport. If they are taken away and put on the do not use list, then we may loose more core racers that go to national events. SCCA needs to stop pissing off the racers and let them race. I have said it before, if you want to win, prep your car and race. It takes a little money to win at any level of racing. Remember it ain't how you stand by your car, it is how you race your car and if your car ain't prepped, then you gonna loose.....

[John Brown]

But.... my car has 13 inch wheels..

Im frigged..

Lets ban autocrossin!!!!!!

[thrdeye]

Lets ban autocrossin!!!!!!

ya know....this would suck for about the first 6 months, but after that you might like it. Kind of like unemployment

[90civichb]

Lets ban autocrossin!!!!!!

ya know....this would suck for about the first 6 months, but after that you might like it. Kind of like unemployment

[John Brown]

naw.. racers just find summin else to race.

...

[steverife]

If it turns out to be an overdog and they don't have a wide variety of sizes (and if the don't change that tread pattern) I'd be in favor of excluding that sucker.

according to my guy at TR, it's a near 300 TW tire …why should it be excluded ?

Well, maybe take another look at my post...but...let's forget that it's a Toyo for just a second and consider the dynamics of Street category classing. I'm not concerned about ST and don't want the discussions to mingle, but what I'm about to say could happen in ST to a lesser extent.

Now, let's say this awesome new fast ringer tire meets the letter of the rules and is available in 4 diameters and 6 total sizes. Cool. Now, lets say those sizes are 15, 16 (two sizes), 17 (two sizes), and 18. So, lets say you run FS and happen to have an M3. Cool. You can maybe run the 18, if it fits correctly, or you can go down to a 17 inch wheel and pick between the two 17 inch sizes. You're in business. Now, if you're one of the FS guys that has a car that comes with 19's, you can pick from ONE size (the 18) to try to get this ringer tire to work on your car. Now, let's say the tread pattern doesn't change and your fat Mustang kills them in no time.

This is why a wide variety of tire sizes is important for street category. This is of course all hypothetical because I know nothing about the tire and I also think that the Direzza/Hankook would probably be just as fast anyway. But if a tire is brought to market that can truly unbalance a class by having a very limited size run, it should be excluded.

You drive a car with a square setup and common wheel/tire sizes. There are a lot of popular and (potentially) competitive cars out there that are handicapped by tire availability. This scenario would be nothing new.

[thrdeye]

But it is new if a NEW tire enters the marketplace and can upset a class that has already established itself decently.

[steverife]

What is the difference between a new tire and a new car that would upset the class?

[John Brown]

What is the difference between a new tire and a new car that would upset the class?

YOU WIN THE PRIZE!!!! THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY OPINION.....

I just figured since all these changes are to make it "cheaper" to compete.. its cheaper to buy a whole new car..than to buy tires OR change your car class to something you can put your choice of tire on.

[thrdeye]

What is the difference between a new tire and a new car that would upset the class?

Well, quite a lot, at least by my reasoning.

If a car is rare or expensive, but would be "the car to have", it may not get favorable classing. (997.23234 GT3, for example). If a car is classed in a manner that makes it "the one to have", it seems like the SEB puts a lot of thought into that. Is is popular? Is it affordable enough? Will it move another very popular car into obsolesence? .....and so on.....

Same with my tire example. If the tire is rare (i.e. not available in a wide variety of sizes), why shouldn't it be treated the same? It shouldn't be allowed to upset the apple cart for the benefit of the FEW that could run it.

Again, all hypothetical since we know nothing about the tire.

[integra55]

I also think that the Direzza/Hankook would probably be just as fast anyway.

this really makes my point for me … there are lots of folk that feel the Direzza/Hankook are just as fast, if not faster … assuming for a moment that that is true, why the institutional "hate" for the tire … if there are other tires as fast or faster, can't see any reason to put it on the exclusion list

plus it (according to my TR guy) MORE than meets the criteria .. the testing showed it closer to 300 TW than 200 TW

[steverife]

What is the difference between a new tire and a new car that would upset the class?

Well, quite a lot, at least by my reasoning.

If a car is rare or expensive, but would be "the car to have", it may not get favorable classing. (997.23234 GT3, for example). If a car is classed in a manner that makes it "the one to have", it seems like the SEB puts a lot of thought into that. Is is popular? Is it affordable enough? Will it move another very popular car into obsolesence? .....and so on.....

Same with my tire example. If the tire is rare (i.e. not available in a wide variety of sizes), why shouldn't it be treated the same? It shouldn't be allowed to upset the apple cart for the benefit of the FEW that could run it.

Again, all hypothetical since we know nothing about the tire.

I don't think you can stay ahead of the curve.

Tire comes out. People test for it. People set up for it. It wins. At that point, people are invested in it and you piss off people.

[jcox07]

If the toyo was way better than all the tires out there, then stc and sts would shit stomp every one at match tours and at pro solos. Don't get me wrong they are a really good tire, but put that tire on a under prepped car and what do you get.... answer a mid pack finish instead of a near last place finish. The tire helps a lot, but if your car ain't prepped with other class legal options YOU SIMPLY WILL NOT WIN unless you are the only one in class or maybe the other 2-3 cars are under prepped as well. This is turning into IROC racing if the scca keeps going the direction they are traveling. Every one has to have the same car and same setup and see who wins.... that ain't fun.

[steverife]

Nicole Wong posted a pic, presumably from SEMA. Same tread pattern, 200TW.