East Tennessee Region SCCA

Post by **disneyd** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:09 pm

Excluded vehicles include Lotus (all)

Damn!

scottgib · Post by **scottgib** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:40 pm

David, I see you are suffering from Lotus delusions again.

Post by **disneyd** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:01 pm

Well, you know, I could probably sneak it in as one... I'll have to put a lot of Lotus badges on it.

MichaelXi · Post by **MichaelXi** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:43 pm

So, will our local club support these classes, or will it just be a "Let's see what shows Up"?

jared · Post by **jared** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:24 am

This classing sucks since they have excluded the 99 Miata!:evil: Especially the non LSD cars. Does anyone know the reasoning of their exclussions?

Mark McCrary · Post by **Mark McCrary** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:36 am

They are trying to make a low budget class. Kind of like STS. After driving a 99 miata it would kill the older miata. So then you would have to chuck out more money for a 99. I think that the 94 -97 Miata will be the best car for the class. I think that it would be really cool if they allowed the 99 miata in. I would save a lot on tires. And a much better choice of wheel selection.

CABoegemann · Post by **CABoegemann** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:47 am

No 99+ Miata in STS2?

Where's my street tire class

Treadwear of 200+ in all stock classes. Manufactures that fudge the numbers get banned from compitition. We can get a durometer. Maybe some people will have another set of legal tires for racing, but I don't think the advantage is even comparable to street vs. hoosier.

dfoulk · Post by **dfoulk** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:37 pm

I would love to see stock class on for real street tires. The only reason I run STS is to avoid the hassle of loading wheels and tires, hauling them to each event, installing them, taking them back off, hauling them home, and unloading them. That is too much like work. I think this explains at least part of the popularity of STS. I could buy a set of Konis for about the same price as a set of autocross tires, or coil overs for the price of about two sets, and they would last a heck of lot longer.

I do think the stock class rules need to remain the same except for the tire thing. If stock is limited to original equipment shocks, we would end up with classes full of expensive cars that come from the factory already set up with performance shocks.

CABoegemann · Post by **CABoegemann** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:02 pm

Try carrying four tires in a Miata. My options are reciever hitch plus trailer or tire carrier. I could bring my truck to every race with the tires in the bed or just trailer my stock car. All of those options are expensive. The cheapest would be the little tire carrier into a reciever hitch, but on a Miata? Makes about as much since as trailering a stock car. Autocrossing should be as affordable as possible and autocrossing in stock class should be cheaper still. I think this one simple rule change would increase solo2 participation greatly.

STS2 let me in

MARKP · Post by **MARKP** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:10 pm

Certainly, I can see the argument for street tires. However, the problem is that a 200 treadwear rating can mean so many different things to different manufacturers.

I have forgotten what the limit is in STS but the Bridgestones on my street car don't meet the treadwear criteria. On the other hand, the Azenis, which doesn't last as long and gives much better grip, has a higher treadwear rating.

All of the DOT ratings are like this because the manufacturers assign the numbers. They are guidelines based on criteria from DOT. Even tire sizes aren't consistent between the manufacturers. If you get a chance sometime, put several tires of the same size from different manufacturers next to each other. I think you will see what I mean.

Mark McCrary · Post by **Mark McCrary** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:19 pm

I think STS2 would be cheaper in the long run. I think that you could get away with the sets on Azienis. Depending on how many autocrosses you go to. With Stock depending on how fast you want to go. You will need to have at least 3 sets of tires. 1 set would be for when it rains and the other 2 sets would be for the rest. Again it all depends on how many events and how fast you want to go but I look at it like this.
Tire bill:
STS2
2 sets if Azienis $500-650
Stock
3 sets of race tires $1200-2000
This is just my opinion.

CABoegemann · Post by **CABoegemann** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:29 pm

I do agree that there may be a new set of issues to deal with. The tires would have to be approved by the SCCA before the start of the race season as it is now. The difference could be that the SCCA asigns its own treadwear rating to each tire. I'm sure that is easier said than done, but it may be worth it in the long run. Stock class is the "hook" for the Solo2 program. It changes spectators into participators. These rules worked well when they were writen, but this is a competitive age. NASA has autocross now and it will grow quickly based on the way they class cars. It's no longer a one car race. I think the SCCA is heading in the right direction and changes seem mostly like good ones. It just seems that this change is inevitable.

jared · Post by **jared** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:19 pm

Mark McCrary wrote:They are trying to make a low budget class. Kind of like STS. After driving a 99 miata it would kill the older miata. So then you would have to chuck out more money for a 99.

I don't believe that the intention for STS is to make for a low budget class, as far as car selection. Especially since the last time I checked the Subaru 2.5 RS, Nissan SER and the Celica GTS are not cheap cars and all of these are allowed in STS. Which I do know that the older SI's are (since I do have one for STS) and they are the car to have. I guess I just don't understand that these same cars (90-97 Miata and 99+) can run in the same street prepared class but cannot run in STS2

. By the way are there any Nationally competitive 99+ cars in CSP? I noticed on the 2003 National Championship results that there were several older Miatas close to the top but no 99+. So what is their rationalization?

Mark McCrary · Post by **Mark McCrary** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:20 pm

There are not any really developed 99+ Miata's that I have seen in CSP. All of the older miata have a 99+ engine in them also. You can not do a motor swap in STS2. There is not updata/backdate rule. If I was going to build a CSP car I would buy a 00 MR2 Spyder (look at Aro and McGeorge I think they will win Nats this year) if it had to be Miata I would take a serious look at the 99 chassis, Yes it is much heavier but I think that the 99+ do handle better. I could be totally wrong. I will know more when I can sell my truck and develope my 99.
I am not saying the STS2 was designed for a lower budget car but you can have a lower budget car and play with the more expensive cars and more than like beat them. I think STS2 will be really popular. You can play with all the stuff to make a car go fast. No engine management etc.